Jackson Holliday 2023

[baltfan]

Most likely scenario is Holiday follows the Gunnar routine and comes up late in the year next year.  He has things to work on and there are good players that the Orioles need to sort out in the majors. 

[banks703]

3 hours ago, btdart20 said:

I caught the last few innings of the Norfolk game last night.  There was a routine grounder to Holliday where he made a loopy throw.  No need for anything more than that and I didn't think anything about it.  But the Buffalo announcer started speaking about Holliday's throwing during the series.  Some off-line, not crisp, making the 1B work, and said he had an error too.  I didn't see any of the prior games but it wasn't flattering.  Maybe @banks703is onto something...

Hopefully, Elias and crew aren't biased by being 'their' guy.  I don't think Elias will be, but that's a tough blinder to remove.

I will reiterate that I am hopeful that his defense improves to a level that the big club will have to choose between Gunnar and Holliday at short. It’s only a good thing to have two guys who can play there, especially when both of them are so elite offensively.

I just don’t see him as a major league SS for the reasons that I have listed. I think if they slot him at 2B it drastically improves the club and improves the likelihood that he breaks camp in 24 with the team. The kid is elite-elite with the stick. He’s going to lead the league in hitting several times during his career. There’s nothing wrong with him ending up at 2B, if for no other reason than because Gunnar has become elite there defensively. 

I think some of our folks in this community just can’t separate the prospect ranking from the actual skill set. That’s fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I encourage folks to take an opportunity to actually watch him play rather than to just blindly subscribe to writers online who base their articles on offensive numbers. As an O’s fan, there’s absolutely nothing to not be excited about with Holliday.   

Ultimately the organization’s opinion is the only one that matters. If he improves and pushes Gunnar to third then that means that the Orioles have an all-world defensive player at shortstop to go with the all-world offensive skills. I would take that 100 times out of 100.

I just don’t see that happening.  

[banks703]

45 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Most likely scenario is Holiday follows the Gunnar routine and comes up late in the year next year.  He has things to work on and there are good players that the Orioles need to sort out in the majors. 

I’ll go on record now and state that I think he’s going to break camp with the O’s. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t go to the AFL (have they announced who in the org will play in the AFL yet?) but I think he will work at 2B over the winter and ends up being the opening day 2B. His ability to hit is quite literally too good to keep him down for any reason unless they are just disgusted by his defense, which I don’t think will be the case…at 2B. I think we go into 24 with Holliday as the presumed favorite to win ROY.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by banks703

[baltfan]

32 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I’ll go on record now and state that I think he’s going to break camp with the O’s. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t go to the AFL (have they announced who in the org will play in the AFL yet?) but I think he will work at 2B over the winter and ends up being the opening day 2B. His ability to hit is quite literally too good to keep him down for any reason unless they are just disgusted by his defense, which I don’t think will be the case…at 2B. I think we go into 24 with Holliday as the presumed favorite to win ROY.  

So Ortiz and Norby just never get a shot?

[OriolesMagic83]

43 minutes ago, baltfan said:

So Ortiz and Norby just never get a shot?

Doesn't really seem fair, especially to Ortiz.  I hope for their own benefit they get traded this offseason so they can have a chance at the majors.  It's amazing and probably not in a good way to Ortiz that Holliday went from low A to AAA in his first full minor league season. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, baltfan said:

So Ortiz and Norby just never get a shot?

Best player plays.  Just a matter of whether Holliday is ready to be better than the other two.  And I’m not saying he is.   That can be determined in spring training.  But if he is, then too bad for the other two. 

[banks703]

48 minutes ago, baltfan said:

So Ortiz and Norby just never get a shot?

 

Listen, you will not find a bigger fanboy of Joey Ortiz than me. I’m on record plenty pleading with the O’s to allow him to be the Jack Wilson type of player that I see him being but if the org feels that Gunnar can play shortstop full-time like he’s played this year (and I’ll remind us that he’s split his games almost in half between SS and 3B this year) then I am just not sure where Joey fits. If they aren’t going to give Joey a shot to play in 24 then they should move him. Gunnar blossoming into the defender that he is now at SS seems to have surprised a lot of people. Perhaps they didn’t account for just how good Gunnar could become but I find that hard to believe. I think it’s more likely that they just over-hedged on MI prospects and more of them hit than they expected  

Norby is a different consideration altogether. He isn’t in the same universe as Gunnar or Holliday and well below Joey on the totem pole. They should have moved Norby last year. I don’t see him ever making an impact for the O’s. He’s been passed by Holliday already. 
 

 

[banks703]

21 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Doesn't really seem fair, especially to Ortiz.  I hope for their own benefit they get traded this offseason so they can have a chance at the majors.  It's amazing and probably not in a good way to Ortiz that Holliday went from low A to AAA in his first full minor league season. 

I haven’t seen Joey in the lineup for a couple weeks now. He’s had an oblique issue. I think his absence is partly why they promoted Holliday. 

[banks703]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Best player plays.  Just a matter of whether Holliday is ready to be better than the other two.  And I’m not saying he is.   That can be determined in spring training.  But if he is, then too bad for the other two. 

Always the eternal voice of reason. The force is strong in you, @Frobby

[scarey1999]

42 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I haven’t seen Joey in the lineup for a couple weeks now. He’s had an oblique issue. I think his absence is partly why they promoted Holliday. 

The promotion was not related.  Ortiz was supposed to be in the lineup the day Holliday debuted (Norby was going to play LF), but was a late scratch with the oblique and hasn’t been seen since. 

[ShoelesJoe]

I think Holliday is the starting 2B for the Orioles out of the gate next season. I also think we start 2024 with five rookies on the roster. 

1) Holliday 2B

2) Rutschman C

3) Henderson SS

4) Santander DH

5) Mountcastle / O'Hearn 1B

6) Mullins CF

7) Mayo 3B

8 Kjerstad RF

9) Hays LF

 

Hicks

Westburg

Cowser

McCann

Ortiz

Edited September 22, 2023 by ShoelesJoe

[Just Regular]

 

[Dar]

One outside the box idea is to have Holliday play center field.  He has speed.  Adam jones did it but I believe it was because jones out grew ss. 
 

it then keeps some others to stay in the infield,  where they are better suited. 

[Gurgi]

4 hours ago, banks703 said:

I’ll go on record now and state that I think he’s going to break camp with the O’s. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t go to the AFL (have they announced who in the org will play in the AFL yet?) but I think he will work at 2B over the winter and ends up being the opening day 2B. His ability to hit is quite literally too good to keep him down for any reason unless they are just disgusted by his defense, which I don’t think will be the case…at 2B. I think we go into 24 with Holliday as the presumed favorite to win ROY.  

I think he is the opening day second base but I doubt he does the AFL.

[Sports Guy]

11 hours ago, baltfan said:

Most likely scenario is Holiday follows the Gunnar routine and comes up late in the year next year.  He has things to work on and there are good players that the Orioles need to sort out in the majors. 

That is not the most likely scenario.

The Os having moved him through the system fast and gotten him to AAA j his first full season to then make him stay there for a full calendar year.

It’s not happening. He may not make the OD roster but he isn’t going to be in the minors for 5 months either.