Grayson Rodriguez 2023

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The rest of the Os pitchers threw 53% of their pitches for strikes.  Do all of them need to see a shrink too?

Who picks up that bill?  Is that the team? And can they get a “we all had a bad game so therefore we are mental weaklings” discount?

They wanna hire this guy.  Grayson needs to take notes!

 

Losing is a disease!  As contagious as polio!

 

[banks703]

4 hours ago, 7Mo said:

When would you have taken him out?

I have the benefit of hindsight of course but if I'm answering honestly, I don't know that I would have done anything different than what Hyde did with him yesterday... but Hyde's job is to manage the players and the game. I expect him to know better than me.

When he walked Seager for the second time, it looked to me like he was legitimately rattled and I might have pulled him then but I certainly would have got him after Garver reached on that play that GrayRod lolipopped the throw to Mountcastle at first. That looked like the undoing and that he wasn't going to recover from it. At least it looked that way to me. I posted in the game thread for Hyde to get him after both of those ABs (to Seager and Garver). 

Again, I am not suggesting that I know better than Brandon but it's his job to know the players better than I do and if I could see on TV that GrayRod didn't have command of his pitches and he was throwing basically only the 4-seamer, then I'd have to think that the coaches knew and Adley knew.

In my opinion, they should have had guys ready to piggyback both of the first two games, whether that be Kremer and Gibson or whatever/whoever the case.. one of each of those two guys should have been prepared as if it was their day to start, to jump into a game if they were needed to pitch. Saving either of them (or more irresponsibly both of them) is inexcusable in my eyes. Yesterday was a must-win game for them after Friday night's loss. You can't go to Texas down 2 games to none in a five-game series. You can't have guys occupy roster spots in the post-season and not use them. Texas made it a bullpen game yesterday. Wouldn't it have made sense to have Gibson or Kremer ready to bail out GrayRod in a worst-case scenario rather than throwing seven guys for 7 1/3 innings?

To me, it looks like getting to the post-season was enough for them. Maybe they're happy with that and consider it to be a successful season. I certainly do. But I don't think that Texas is the better team. This series looks like a wasted opportunity, especially when nothing for next year or beyond is guaranteed. They will have to do A LOT to win 101 games next year. I wouldn't count on that happening. 

[TheWall]

13 minutes ago, banks703 said:

To me, it looks like getting to the post-season was enough for them. Maybe they're happy with that and consider it to be a successful season. I certainly do. But I don't think that Texas is the better team. This series looks like a wasted opportunity, especially when nothing for next year or beyond is guaranteed. They will have to do A LOT to win 101 games next year. I wouldn't count on that happening. 

What about how they played makes you think getting to the post-season was enough for them? The team went down 7 runs and battled the entire way. 

Sometimes a young starter implodes and sometimes you lose games, but questioning if the team actually cares about winning is absurd. 

[banks703]

10 minutes ago, TheWall said:

What about how they played makes you think getting to the post-season was enough for them? The team went down 7 runs and battled the entire way. 

Sometimes a young starter implodes and sometimes you lose games, but questioning if the team actually cares about winning is absurd. 

I should have clarified better - the org as a whole. I don't think that the product on the field is satisfied with just getting to the post-season. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's possible.  That's all it is...possible.  

Yet people are acting like they're certain the "moment was too big for him" yesterday.  

Does it really matter?   He pitched poorly in a big moment, regardless of whether the cause was the big moment itself.   Let’s not forget that Texas crushed him on May 26 as well.  Would I hesitate to start him again in a big moment?   Nope. Because he’s going to need to learn how to pitch well in big games, and you have to pitch in them in order to learn.  

[7Mo]

31 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I have the benefit of hindsight of course but if I'm answering honestly, I don't know that I would have done anything different than what Hyde did with him yesterday... but Hyde's job is to manage the players and the game. I expect him to know better than me.

You said it was evident from the first batter. 

This guy was one of the best starters in baseball after the ASB. I don't think it's unreasonable to give a young guy, in his first MLB playoff game into the second inning to calm down and find it. Obviously it didn't work out. But I don't think many, if any, MLB managers would have pulled a guy in the first inning there. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Oh I see he meant it.  Wow, that’s an absurd opinion.

He hadnt pitched in 11 days. He walked 4 guys. One was on a pitch that was a clear strike and was called ball 4 and another was an obvious pitch around of Seager.

About 63% of his pitches went for strikes and if ball 4 to Carter was called a strike, that % jumps to 64.4%, which is above the league average.

He just didn’t throw enough quality strikes, especially with 2 strikes. They hit a lot of balls hard but they also found holes with those balls.  It happens especially when you are a little off and you had 11 days off. 

He threw 47% in the zone so not sure where you are getting that strike percentage. Are you including swings on pitches out of the zone.

It very well could haven been the layoff, but I do believe the moment was a little too big for him. We saw that when he first came up and was hyped about being in the big leagues. 

He's going to be fine. It was a learning experience for him no matter what, but it's not absurd to think with all the energy in the park, and believe me I was there and it was crazy, that he just wasn't able to put it back together when a few things went wrong. 

He had issues with innings snowballing on him in his first stint with the Orioles before going back to AAA and getting things calmed down.

Basically this was the biggest event he'd ever pitched and in front of the biggest, loudest, craziest crowd. It's not absurd to think it affected him when we haven't seen this version of him since what, May? 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

He threw 47% in the zone so not sure where you are getting that strike percentage. Are you including swings on pitches out of the zone.

It very well could haven been the layoff, but I do believe the moment was a little too big for him. We saw that when he first came up and was hyped about being in the big leagues. 

He's going to be fine. It was a learning experience for him no matter what, but it's not absurd to think with all the energy in the park, and believe me I was there and it was crazy, that he just wasn't able to put it back together when a few things went wrong. 

He had issues with innings snowballing on him in his first stint with the Orioles before going back to AAA and getting things calmed down.

Basically this was the biggest event he'd ever pitched and in front of the biggest, loudest, craziest crowd. It's not absurd to think it affected him when we haven't seen this version of him since what, May? 

 

 

It’s just math. It’s how many pitches he threw and how many were strikes. 62.7% of his pitches were strikes and that number increases to 64.4% if that one pitch to Carter was called a strike, which is clearly was.

And it also gets skewed when he obviously pitches around Seager in the one at bat.

And btw, I’m not saying he wasn’t amped up. Most pitchers get amped up in that situation. But the idea that he needs to see a shrink and that he can’t handle the moment is absurd. We have basically zero sample size to say that. As was pointed out, he pitched in big moments down the stretch and he dominated.

Yesterday he struggled in large part because he had 11 days off imo.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Moose Milligan]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Does it really matter?   He pitched poorly in a big moment, regardless of whether the cause was the big moment itself.   Let’s not forget that Texas crushed him on May 26 as well.  Would I hesitate to start him again in a big moment?   Nope. Because he’s going to need to learn how to pitch well in big games, and you have to pitch in them in order to learn.  

Doesn’t matter to me. 

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

You said it was evident from the first batter. 

This guy was one of the best starters in baseball after the ASB. I don't think it's unreasonable to give a young guy, in his first MLB playoff game into the second inning to calm down and find it. Obviously it didn't work out. But I don't think many, if any, MLB managers would have pulled a guy in the first inning there. 

Agreed. He was dominant after his call up. He was hitting triple digits yesterday and he threw some nasty change ups. No way you pull that guy that early. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s just math. It’s how many pitches he threw and how many were strikes. 62.7% of his pitches were strikes and that number increases to 64.4% if that one pitch to Carter was called a strike, which is clearly was.

And it also gets skewed when he obviously pitches around Seager in the one at bat.

 

You don't need math with Baseball Savant. He threw 47% in the zone. Now, that does not includes swings and misses and fouls out of the zone which end up as strikes. Perhaps that's what you ae including. 

There is no doubt Seager was rightfully pitched around. 

[7Mo]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Agreed. He was dominant after his call up. He was hitting triple digits. He threw some nasty change ups. No way you pull that guy that early. 

First batter of the game, Semien, stuck his bat out and singled to left on a 1-2 count. If that's "evident after the first batter", that's some next level evaluation. 

I've heard a 100 times "you better get him early before he settles in". Guess that isn't possible with our guys.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

You don't need math with Baseball Savant. He threw 47% in the zone. Now, that does not includes swings and misses and fouls out of the zone which end up as strikes. Perhaps that's what you ae including. 

There is no doubt Seager was rightfully pitched around. 

Of course that’s what I’m including..because those are strikes.

Looking at balls out of the zone is a poor stat imo because many pitches are thrown out of the zone on purpose. Grayson gets guys to go after balls up a lot, many of which aren’t strikes. He isn’t trying to throw a strike in those situations. 

In fact, most pitchers try to get guys to swing at pitches that aren’t strikes. 

There is way too much unknown info to just look at that stat and take much away from it. I mean, Randy Johnson made a HOF career getting players to swing at a slider that was rarely a strike. That’s just how so many power pitchers succeed.  Felix throws a lot of fastballs and splitters out of the zone but gets guys going after them. 

Now, for most of the second half, he was throwing 67-70% of his pitches for strikes. So, I don’t doubt that he was off but I think 11 days off has as much to do with that as anything.

 

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Of course that’s what I’m including..because those are strikes.

Looking at balls out of the zone is a poor stat imo because many pitches are thrown out of the zone on purpose. Grayson gets guys to go after balls up a lot, many of which aren’t strikes. He isn’t trying to throw a strike in those situations. 

In fact, most pitchers try to get guys to swing at pitches that aren’t strikes. 

There is way too much unknown info to just look at that stat and take much away from it. I mean, Randy Johnson made a HOF career getting players to swing at a slider that was rarely a strike. That’s just how so many power pitchers succeed.  Felix throws a lot of fastballs and splitters out of the zone but gets guys going after them. 

Now, for most of the second half, he was throwing 67-70% of his pitches for strikes. So, I don’t doubt that he was off but I think 11 days off has as much to do with that as anything.

 

Perhaps it was rust, or perhaps it was the moment was a little too big for him or maybe it was combination of both. None of them are absurd scenarios. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Perhaps it was rust, or perhaps it was the moment was a little too big for him or maybe it was combination of both. None of them are absurd scenarios. 

I don’t think it’s correct to say the moment is too big for him. I think that’s poor wording that has a far more negative connotation to it than needee.

It’s absurd to think he needs a shrink because of this outing. It’s not absurd to think he was too amped up though. I think rust was a bigger issue but we won’t know for sure.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Sports Guy