Jorge Mateo 2023

[jdwilde1]

Mateo’s hitting success reminds me of J.D. Martinez.   As many people on this site know, Martinez was a marginal major leaguer who developed into a prolific slugger after making mechanical changes to his swing three years into his MLB career.  After Martinez started implementing his new swing mechanics in Venezuela winter ball he said it felt like he was cheating because hitting became so much easier.  Likewise, Mateo has implemented changes to his swing mechanics and he seems like a totally different player. He’s calm at the plate, easily lays off the low and away, and is crushing anything in his zone.  
 

Who knows if Mateo will go on to be an offensive force for a decade like Martinez, but it’s great to see right now.  
 

https://medium.com/@adamsalorio/the-reinvention-of-jorge-mateo-how-changes-to-his-swing-and-approach-are-leading-to-success-b53f7c94ebdc

 

[sevastras]

4 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Definitely not a 1.062 OPS or a .347 BA. That would be like Barry Bonds steroid/PED enhanced numbers that I don't think are humanly possible (without a little help). 

What I would suggesting is what if he is reaching his full potential as a player? Otherwise stated, what if it's all starting to click and the skills have caught up with the tremendous athletic talents?

We all said, if he could ever lay off of that low and away pitch OR that high fastball above the zone, then he would be awesome. What is what we are seeing is that and he has been able to reach his 'awesome'?

Those are pretty much the numbers Bonds had in 1992 in Pittsburgh pre enhancement. People forget just how great Bonds was even before he went to SF. 

[Bemorewins]

7 hours ago, sevastras said:

Those are pretty much the numbers Bonds had in 1992 in Pittsburgh pre enhancement. People forget just how great Bonds was even before he went to SF. 

He was ALWAYS a great player. But I don’t remember him hitting anything like .340 until SF. I could be wrong though.

But either way I agree with your post in general, he was the ultimate 5 tool player.

[Tony-OH]

On 4/26/2023 at 10:23 AM, Going Underground said:

 

Interesting well-written article. I didn't realize he had changed his swing this offseason. Well, it's worked so far!

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

He was ALWAYS a great player. But I don’t remember him hitting anything like .340 until SF. I could be wrong though.

But either way I agree with your post in general, he was the ultimate 5 tool player.

Then he went on to become the ultimate tool.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Then he went on to become the ultimate tool.

Well he was probably always that. He had a really good teacher in terms of how to become one from his dad.

[Il BuonO]

15 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Why would we want them? ….The goal MUST be winning and competing now. We are beyond this now. We should now longer be sellers, but buyers.  

But as an org, we already have an embarrassment of riches in terms of positional talent….But what we don't have is the requisite starting pitching to win in the Fall. I believe the org's top priority should be to figure out a way to get that. Bradish, Kremer, and Gibson are NOT those guys IMO. Grayson is developing nicely but that's only one. 

To begin with, you answered your own question. The goal IS to win now. Buying, or trading for talent is exactly why they would consider trading Mateo. 

In the second quoted paragraph you again make a point in my argument which is the need for starting pitching. If you believe the org’s top priority should be acquiring that then how do you propose they go about it if not trading away a surplus of talent? You say Mateo is a “nugget”, well then he’s also a chip. They’re loaded positionally, you said so yourself. If Mateo has figured it out with the bat then he’s valuable. Valuable enough as the lead piece in a trade to get the team the starting pitching they need.

[Il BuonO]

15 hours ago, waroriole said:

If he keeps this up for two more months no way in hell we’re trading him. 

Why not? If he keeps it up he increases his value and what they can acquire because of that.

[Bemorewins]

15 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

To begin with, you answered your own question. The goal IS to win now. Buying, or trading for talent is exactly why they would consider trading Mateo. 

In the second quoted paragraph you again make a point in my argument which is the need for starting pitching. If you believe the org’s top priority should be acquiring that then how do you propose they go about it if not trading away a surplus of talent? You say Mateo is a “nugget”, well then he’s also a chip. They’re loaded positionally, you said so yourself. If Mateo has figured it out with the bat then he’s valuable. Valuable enough as the lead piece in a trade to get the team the starting pitching they need.

If you want Mateo gone, I respect your right to hold that opinion. I would hate to trade him away as he is producing wonderfully and we have a 1:1 to eventually come and take his place. I'm not saying don't move him, but I don't want to trade him until Holiday is ready to be our SS.

For this year, Mateo is most likely to contribute to our success more than any of our redundant prospects. I would rather trade some of them, since we are already over crowded in the org with positional talent. We can get the pitching that we need that way without sacrificing from the Major League team. Just my 2 cents.

[HandsomeQuack]

Trading Mateo makes zero sense at the moment considering that no valuation from another team will be as high as the level at which he is currently playing. What kind of first half would he need to have where he is both a) playing well enough to get a decent haul and b) not playing so great that the win-now-mode team can't part with him? Short of Burnes or Cease (which have roughly 0% chance of happening), I struggle to envision a deal that makes sense. Maybe Bobby Miller?

[Sydnor]

DeRosa with a video breakdown of what the Sun article discussed:

 

[LA2]

5 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

He was ALWAYS a great player. But I don’t remember him hitting anything like .340 until SF. I could be wrong though.

But either way I agree with your post in general, he was the ultimate 5 tool player.

Bonds was MVP twice with the Pirates in 1990 and '92--in between he finished runner-up. The counting stats were not as high as they were with the Giants, but he was clearly in a class by himself already.

[Bemorewins]

15 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Bonds was MVP twice with the Pirates in 1990 and '92--in between he finished runner-up. The counting stats were not as high as they were with the Giants, but he was clearly in a class by himself already.

I LOVED BB! He was my favorite player when I was growing up besides Ripken. But I can't join you in saying he was in a class by himself. In the mid 90's starting around like 93', many people thought Griffey Jr was the games best. It just that they sort of separated as they age. Bonds became better than Ruth at his peak in SF and Griffey fell off a cliff as he aged in CIN.

[HakunaSakata]

Put yourself in Mike Elias' shoes. If any of these hypothetical trades/players were offered to you for Mateo would you accept? 

Hunter Brown (HOU)
24 year old righty. 
2.37 ERA / 1.05 WHIP / 32 Ks (in 30 IP)

-----------------------------------------

George Kirby (SEA)
25 year old righty
3.30 ERA / 1.21 WHIP / 24 Ks (in 30 IP)

-----------------------------------------

Christian Javier (HOU)
26 year old righty
3.48 ERA / 1.13 WHIP / 35 Ks (in 33.2 IP)

-----------------------------------------

Eury Perez (MIA)
20 year old righty
Minor Leagues (top 10ish prospect) - 2.70 ERA / 1.00 WHIP  / 22 Ks (in 20 IP)

-----------------------------------------

Gavin Williams (CLE)
23 year old righty
Minor Leagues (top 40ish prospect) - 1.74 ERA / .92 WHIP / 26 Ks (in 19.2 IP)

 

 

[Spy Fox]

4 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Put yourself in Mike Elias' shoes. If any of these hypothetical trades/players were offered to you for Mateo would you accept? 

Hunter Brown (HOU)
24 year old righty. 
2.37 ERA / 1.05 WHIP / 32 Ks (in 30 IP)

-----------------------------------------

George Kirby (SEA)
25 year old righty
3.30 ERA / 1.21 WHIP / 24 Ks (in 30 IP)

-----------------------------------------

Christian Javier (HOU)
26 year old righty
3.48 ERA / 1.13 WHIP / 35 Ks (in 33.2 IP)

-----------------------------------------

Eury Perez (MIA)
20 year old righty
Minor Leagues (top 10ish prospect) - 2.70 ERA / 1.00 WHIP  / 22 Ks (in 20 IP)

-----------------------------------------

Gavin Williams (CLE)
23 year old righty
Minor Leagues (top 40ish prospect) - 1.74 ERA / .92 WHIP / 26 Ks (in 19.2 IP)
 

I think you absolutely trade Mateo for some of those guys. Especially Brown/Kirby/Javier who have already shown their stuff in the big leagues.

If I was in Mike Elias' shoes, "Is this Jorge Mateo for real?" would be one of the top priorities of my stats/research team at the moment.