Joey Ortiz 2023

[Sports Guy]

Just saw that Mateo has a wRC+ of 2 since the beginning of May. 2!!!!

DFA him. You will find a trade partner for him. His speed and defense provide value off the bench.

[UMDTerrapins]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Just saw that Mateo has a wRC+ of 2 since the beginning of May. 2!!!!

DFA him. You will find a trade partner for him. His speed and defense provide value off the bench.

Agree. It’s not like he’s suddenly going to establish significantly more trade value by starting him over the next month plus. His struggles are well known. We either accept him as a bench piece or have to deal him. And we’re a contender…..we need to run out our best nine and we’re not doing that.

[Bemorewins]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Just saw that Mateo has a wRC+ of 2 since the beginning of May. 2!!!!

DFA him. You will find a trade partner for him. His speed and defense provide value off the bench.

Just as egregiously bad those stats jump out to you, that's what they look like to other teams as well. Everyone knows Mateo can't hit. I'm not against DFAing him. But I don't see any value whatsoever that he could bring in a trade. Like nothing. IF a team is willing to pick him up it will be after he is released. I can't see any team trading for him. He literally does NOTHING with the bat in his hand except make outs.

[Billy F-Face3]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Just as egregiously bad those stats jump out to you, that's what they look like to other teams as well. Everyone knows Mateo can't hit. I'm not against DFAing him. But I don't see any value whatsoever that he could bring in a trade. Like nothing. IF a team is willing to pick him up it will be after he is released. I can't see any team trading for him. He literally does NOTHING with the bat in his hand except make outs.

If Spencer Watkins can get you some cash in a trade, than surely there's something the 2022 AL champion of stolen bases can get you. At a bare minimum there's cash considerations to be gained.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

If Spencer Watkins can get you some cash in a trade, than surely there's something the 2022 AL champion of stolen bases can get you. At a bare minimum there's cash considerations to be gained.

I doubt it. But hey, if we can get a bag of baseballs or a spare tire, I guess it's better than nothing?

If we can't get anything for him, I'm ok with that as well. We got him for nothing. And it looks like after all this time, that was for good reason. The man simply cannot hit.

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Just as egregiously bad those stats jump out to you, that's what they look like to other teams as well. Everyone knows Mateo can't hit. I'm not against DFAing him. But I don't see any value whatsoever that he could bring in a trade. Like nothing. IF a team is willing to pick him up it will be after he is released. I can't see any team trading for him. He literally does NOTHING with the bat in his hand except make outs.

The thing is, he has value as a bench piece because of speed and defense. For the Os, the defensive part is negated because of Ortiz and we can’t keep him on the roster just to pinch run in key situations.

Other teams could use the defense though so while the hit tool is awful (even though he is capable of good stretches) he has enough other stuff to help out.

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The thing is, he has value as a bench piece because of speed and defense. For the Os, the defensive part is negated because of Ortiz and we can’t keep him on the roster just to pinch run in key situations.

Other teams could use the defense though so while the hit tool is awful (even though he is capable of good stretches) he has enough other stuff to help out.

How many other teams use a late inning defensive replacement at SS? SS tends to be the best defender on the team, usually.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

How many other teams use a late inning defensive replacement at SS? SS tends to be the best defender on the team, usually.

Well it’s not just late inning. Some teams he may start on occasion. 

The point is, run prevention is important and he can help a team in that aspect of things.

If the Os didn’t have Ortiz, he would be more valuable to the team than he is and maybe you don’t look to move him but Ortiz affords us that luxury, plus we have another plus SS as a back up in Henderson and others who can play the position.

We have a depth at the position most teams don’t, so it makes him less valuable to us.

There will be a market for him imo. We aren’t getting a ton but just as Seattle just traded Flexen after DFA’ing him, I think the Os will be able to do the same with Mateo.

[clapdiddy]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well it’s not just late inning. Some teams he may start on occasion. 

The point is, run prevention is important and he can help a team in that aspect of things.

If the Os didn’t have Ortiz, he would be more valuable to the team than he is and maybe you don’t look to move him but Ortiz affords us that luxury, plus we have another plus SS as a back up in Henderson and others who can play the position.

We have a depth at the position most teams don’t, so it makes him less valuable to us.

There will be a market for him imo. We aren’t getting a ton but just as Seattle just traded Flexen after DFA’ing him, I think the Os will be able to do the same with Mateo.

I would not have a problem with this, but I highly doubt it happens.   Why they are still giving ABs to Mateo is beyond reason at this point.   He is an instant out.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, clapdiddy said:

I would not have a problem with this, but I highly doubt it happens.   Why they are still giving ABs to Mateo is beyond reason at this point.   He is an instant out.

They are doing it because they love his defense but again, if you bring up Ortiz, you have that anyway.

OF: Hays, Mullins and Cowser

IF: ROH, Westburg, Ortiz, Henderson

C- Adley

DH- Santander 

bench: McCann, Urias, Frazier, Hicks

Mountcastle is someone else who can come up eventually but a trade, DFA or injury may need to happen to get him up. 
 

Option McKenna and DFA Mateo.

[Hank Scorpio]

37 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They are doing it because they love his defense but again, if you bring up Ortiz, you have that anyway.

OF: Hays, Mullins and Cowser

IF: ROH, Westburg, Ortiz, Henderson

C- Adley

DH- Santander 

bench: McCann, Urias, Frazier, Hicks

Mountcastle is someone else who can come up eventually but a trade, DFA or injury may need to happen to get him up. 
 

Option McKenna and DFA Mateo.

I agree this is our best set up for now.

There are so many different ways Elias can go with this... the trade deadline will be very interesting.

[banks703]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

They are doing it because they love his defense but again, if you bring up Ortiz, you have that anyway.

OF: Hays, Mullins and Cowser

IF: ROH, Westburg, Ortiz, Henderson

C- Adley

DH- Santander 

bench: McCann, Urias, Frazier, Hicks

Mountcastle is someone else who can come up eventually but a trade, DFA or injury may need to happen to get him up. 
 

Option McKenna and DFA Mateo.

I think this is right but I'll add that the switch-hittingness of Ant and Hicks would allow the O's to semi-platoon virtually everyone on the roster outside of Adley, Ant and Hays. 

 

Against LHP they could go with an OF of Hays, Hicks and Ant. In the IF they could go Ortiz at SS, Gunnar at 3B, Urias or JW at 2B (or they could spell Gunnar against a tough lefty and use both Urias and JW at 3B/2B). When Ant doesn't play RF he could play 1B against LHP but in a perfect world Mountcastle would slot into either DH or 1B against LHP because he rakes LHP. 

 

Against RHP they could go Hays, Mullins and Cowser in the OF. Ant to DH. In the IF they could go Urias at 3B, Gunnar at SS, JW at 2B with O'Hearn at First. Or they could use Frazier in matchups that he has decent or good numbers. 

 

There are a lot of options with Ortiz on the roster over Jorge and in my opinion, they put out a better overall product. 

 

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Just saw that Mateo has a wRC+ of 2 since the beginning of May. 2!!!!

DFA him. You will find a trade partner for him. His speed and defense provide value off the bench.

Why not keep Mateo as a Terrance Gore role player?  Late game pinch runner and defensive sub at SS.  There's value there.  Especially with having a position versatile roster.  

[Sports Guy]

27 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Why not keep Mateo as a Terrance Gore role player?  Late game pinch runner and defensive sub at SS.  There's value there.  Especially with having a position versatile roster.  

Because we have other guys that are more valuable and only so many roster spots.

[CaptainRedbeard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

They are doing it because they love his defense but again, if you bring up Ortiz, you have that anyway.

OF: Hays, Mullins and Cowser

IF: ROH, Westburg, Ortiz, Henderson

C- Adley

DH- Santander 

bench: McCann, Urias, Frazier, Hicks

Mountcastle is someone else who can come up eventually but a trade, DFA or injury may need to happen to get him up. 
 

Option McKenna and DFA Mateo.

I’ll also add that by September, if O’Hearn turns into a pumpkin, our best lineup may be with Santander at 1B and Kjerstad DHing. But I don’t see that happening until Kjerstad gets more time at AAA and likely not until rosters expand / Kjerstad retains rookie status for next year. 

Whatever the case, something has gotta give with Ortiz by the trade deadline at the latest. He needs MLB at bats and if the Orioles think he’s potentially part of the future they need to give him an opportunity before Holliday is knocking on the door. The best IF alignment for the Orioles now and for the future is with Henderson, Westburg and Ortiz all starting.