Mateo/Ortiz/Holliday — who could help us most THIS SEASON

[Frobby]

There are a number of threads floating around, but I wanted to put this in the form of a poll, and also eliminate considerations like service time, 40-man roster spots, 2024 ROY eligibility, etc.   Simply put, starting from today, who would give us the best chance to win down the stretch THIS SEASON — Jorge Mateo, Joey Ortiz or Jackson Holliday — taking into account the other players we already have on the roster?

Mateo: terrible hitter, can be a stellar defender but has had hiccups lately, could have value pinch running.

Ortiz: also an excellent defender, maybe not as rangy as Mateo at his best but perhaps steadier than the version of Mateo we’ve seen lately.  Hasn’t hit well in 33 major league PA but his AA/AAA track record says he should be a decent to good hitter.  

Holliday: by far the highest offensive ceiling long term but has only played 15 games of AA and is 19 years old.  On the other hand, he hasn’t faltered as he moved up the ladder at lightning speed.   Defensively, he’s reportedly very solid but may not be in the class of Mateo or Ortiz.  

So what say you?   Remember, this is just about who wouid help us most the rest of this year.   Forget any other considerations.

 

[RVAOsFan]

I am just ready to see what Ortiz can contribute, we have seen what Mateo can do and I just don't think we miss much by releasing him.

Holliday is probably going to be a great major league ballplayer but I just think Ortiz is probably a little more ready than he is at this moment given the stakes right now.

[HakunaSakata]

I like the swing for the fences move so I voted for Holliday. And if they wait until Sept to call him up they can keep his ABs under 130 so he's still eligible for ROY next season.

[Moose Milligan]

It's like Frobby is doing a wildcard impression.

I went with Ortiz.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's like Frobby is doing a wildcard impression.

How so?

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

How so?

I read the title and thought it was a wildcard thread  

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I read the title and thought it was a wildcard thread  

I don’t know whether to be complimented or insulted.  

[Ripken]

Ortiz.  Not sure how you pick anyone else but I do understand the excitement for Holliday.  Mateo runs fast and that's it.  

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t know whether to be complimented or insulted.  

I know  

There's a little over a month and a half left.  I think Mateo is here to stay unless he does something catastrophically terrible.  

I'd rank them:

Ortiz

Holliday

Mateo

Holliday is the biggest question mark of the three, however I don't think he could be as bad as Mateo has been with the bat.  I don't know much about his defense...but as of late, with the infield defense, it would hard to be just as bad if not worse.

[Bemorewins]

IMO despite the tremendous talents/potential of our prospects Holliday and Ortiz. I don't believe calling up either is needed/necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I only see Mateo having 1 useful skill now and certainly for the post season (his speed). But that is probably enough for the rest of the run this season. Mullins and Hicks will return soon in effect removing Mateo from CF (and hopefully from the lineup).

As it relates to Holliday and Ortiz, it would represent a risk (which the org appears very adversed to) brining up either up and inserting them in the lineup on a regular basis. From the recent experiences (last few years) we can surmise that it might be reasonable to expect that it could take some time for either to adjust to big league pitching. And that is simply time that we don't have to give at this juncture of the season and with the magnitude of the games. (We are already going through this with Cowser.) IMO we don't need to add a second regular hitter to the lineup who is of a similar ineffective/noncompetitive nature right now.

Of course this could be said about Mateo. But again, I feel the solution is to get our regular and backup CF in the outfield soon, thus regulating Mateo to the 26th man/bench/pinch runner role for the rest of this season and into the playoffs.

I think Mateo's defense and Ortiz's for that matter are not very relevant right now because IMO Gunnar should get everyday reps at SS. I keep going back to the point that there appears to be no need (given what we have seen from him in the field at the position this year) to attempt to move him off of SS. He has done excellent there. Also, I feel that it is too late in the year to yo-yo him back and forth. Just leave him where he is unless he proves that he cannot handle it. 

Last thing about the defensive capabilities of Mateo/Ortiz. I have heard it mentioned by multiple posters that either/both can serve as a defensive replacement. While that may be true, how often does the SS position ever require a defensive replacement in general? (IMO it rarely ever happens) What is it about Gunnar's SS defense that needs to be replaced/upgraded? 

[Aristotelian]

I don't know how to answer the question of "could". Ortiz and Holliday both have the physical skills and hit tool to help us at a high level. Either of them could help us, or hurt us, either more or less than the other. 

I would throw Kjerstad on the list as he "could" be an upgrade over Cowser's current production, although Cowser "could" also improve. Kjerstad could also be an upgrade over Mountcastle vs RHP, but then again he might not. 

In terms of likelihood, Ortiz is on the 40 man and merits a promotion when there is an opportunity. If Urias is injured, he just might get it. 

 

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t know whether to be complimented or insulted.  

Moose rarely compliments me.   But the good natured insults are plentiful.

[Aristotelian]

I also see the argument for keeping Mateo as the last guy purely for pinch running and backing up every position. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

 

Last thing about the defensive capabilities of Mateo/Ortiz. I have heard it mentioned by multiple posters that either/both can serve as a defensive replacement. While that may be true, how often does the SS position ever require a defensive replacement in general? (IMO it rarely ever happens) What is it about Gunnar's SS defense that needs to be replaced/upgraded? 

To your point, the latest defensive metrics on Gunnar at SS are:

Rtot: +5

Rdrs: +5

UZR: +1.8

OAA: +1

And, I think anyone who’s watched him would say he’s gotten better and better as the season has gone along.

So you’re right that Gunnar is a very solid SS that you don’t need to replace late in games.  But that doesn’t mean you wouldn’t do it if you had someone even better.

 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know how to answer the question of "could". 

How Aristotelian of you!  The question of “could” has plagued philosophers for centuries!

By “could,” I mean “would, if he were on the team.”  Does that help?