Infield alignment

[RZNJ]

There are multiple ways to go.  Without a doubt, it appears that Henderson and Holliday are locks to be in our infield over the next 3-4 years.  Who joins them as the third man?   Westburg,Mayo, Ortiz, Norby?   If it’s Mayo at 3B then I think there is close to zero chance they ask Henderson to move to 2B.  If the 3rd man is Mayo 99% the alignment is:

3B Mayo/SS Henderson/2B Holliday

If the third man is Norby he’s pretty much locked into 2B.   Henderson is probably the best 3B of this trio but he might be the best SS.  I’m going 60:40 the alignment is:

3B Henderson/SS Holliday/2B Norby 

If Westburg is the 3rd man he could be the 2B or 3B but it did look like he was stronger at 2B.  Again, assuming Holliday is a solid SS, which he appeared to be at 19 and should get stronger and better, I’m going with this:

3B Henderson/SS Holliday/2B Westburg 

Last, but not least is Joey Ortiz.  Ortiz looks above average at all 3 spots.  Guessing on this one makes my head hurt.   Holliday could be at any of the 3 spots and Ortiz as well.  I’m only confident that Henderson would either be the SS or 3B.

There you have it.  Henderson has been very impressive at SS and he wants to play there.  Is there a scenario where he moves over to 3B?   Maybe.

[CaptainRedbeard]

The most interesting scenario is how they align with Westburg along with Henderson and Holliday. If it’s Mayo he’s at 3B (if not 1B), if Norby he’s at 2B, and if Ortiz he’s at SS. Ortiz could certainly play 2B or 3B but seems unlikely they would do that if he’s the superior SS defender among the 3, which is pretty much the consensus scouting report.

With Westburg, I think he’s probably better suited for 2B than 3B because he has range but not a great arm. But he can play both.

So it depends on Holliday - if he’s a better SS than Gunnar, it would be Holliday at SS, Gunnar 3B and Westburg 2B.  But if Gunnar is ahead of Holliday defensively, Holliday seems much more a 2B than a 3B.  I’m a bit skeptical that Holliday will be better than Gunnar given Gunnar’s elite arm and athleticism, so I think we’ll see Holliday at 2B and Westburg at 3B. 

[DirtyBird]

interesting

[Aristotelian]

I have to think either there will be some trades, or Mayo's future is at 1B. Either one will help narrow down the choices but it's hard to guess with so many options at the moment. Based on the status quo, I think you have to give opportunities to each guy and decide based on performance, including who hits and who doesn't.

[oriole]

My best guess is 3B Henderson, SS Holliday, 2B Westburg with Ortiz as the utility infielder and Mayo at 1B. Both Ortiz and Mayo might be better suited as trade chips, but assuming Elias doesn’t trade any top chips (since he has yet to ever do that) I’m going with this alignment. Norby seems to be the odd man out and is probably set up to get the Prieto/Hernaiz treatment…traded for an inconsequential piece. 

[RZNJ]

The most tantalizing alignment, for me, is 3B Mayo, SS Henderson, 2B Holliday.    That probably has the highest offensive upside.  Mayo just needs to not be a defensive liability at 3B.

[The Goob]

My opinion for a while has been that it is 3B Henderson, SS Holliday, 2B Westburg and 1B Mayo with Ortiz as the utility guy pushing Mateo, Urias and Mountcastle off the roster as early as this offseason.

[Sports Guy]

I still think the most likely outcome is Holliday at SS, Henderson at third, Mayo at first and Westburg or Ortiz at second.

 

[BobP]

Just throwing this out there. Whenever Henderson is asked where he wants to play he is rather adamant it's SS. His response is usually something like I've played SS my whole life and its where I want to play. I've never heard him say "what's best for the team" or "I'll play wherever the coaches tell me to go" etc. This could make decisions more difficult. I see Henderson at SS and Holliday at 2B. 3B will be dependent on the trade market, but if he's still on team Westburg will get plenty of starts there.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, BobP said:

Just throwing this out there. Whenever Henderson is asked where he wants to play he is rather adamant it's SS. His response is usually something like I've played SS my whole life and its where I want to play. I've never heard him say "what's best for the team" or "I'll play wherever the coaches tell me to go" etc. This could make decisions more difficult. I see Henderson at SS and Holliday at 2B. 3B will be dependent on the trade market, but if he's still on team Westburg will get plenty of starts there.

I think that’s something to take into account but I’ve never gotten the same impression that Henderson wouldn’t willingly do what he’s asked.  First, it’s likely until shown or reported otherwise that Henderson is the superior SS.  You also have to take into account that he is emerging as a team leader and pretty much laid claim to the SS position this year.   I do think it’s unlikely he’s asked to move unless Holliday is at least close to his equal at SS.  Even then it might be easier to just slide Holliday to 2B.  

[CaptainRedbeard]

I’ve not had any impression that Gunnar was upset with playing 3B while Mateo is at SS, but Mateo is a clearly supremely talented defender. I suspect there could be more hard feelings if asked to move over in deference to somebody less talented, and that could be a consideration for the team internally. I highly doubt he’d ever voice complaints publicly or create an issue in the clubhouse in any case. 

The scouting reports have Ortiz pretty much on the Mateo level. Holliday could be, or could ultimately end up at that level, we don’t really know.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

I’ve not had any impression that Gunnar was upset with playing 3B while Mateo is at SS, but Mateo is a clearly supremely talented defender. I suspect there could be more hard feelings if asked to move over in deference to somebody less talented, and that could be a consideration for the team internally. I highly doubt he’d ever voice complaints publicly or create an issue in the clubhouse in any case. 

The scouting reports have Ortiz pretty much on the Mateo level. Holliday could be, or could ultimately end up at that level, we don’t really know.

I did not find the 2023 version of Mateo to be a clearly supremely talented defender.

[Aristotelian]

50 minutes ago, BobP said:

Just throwing this out there. Whenever Henderson is asked where he wants to play he is rather adamant it's SS. His response is usually something like I've played SS my whole life and its where I want to play. I've never heard him say "what's best for the team" or "I'll play wherever the coaches tell me to go" etc. This could make decisions more difficult. I see Henderson at SS and Holliday at 2B. 3B will be dependent on the trade market, but if he's still on team Westburg will get plenty of starts there.

I wouldn't describe his tone as adamant or in any way suggestive he might become disgruntled playing 3B. 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

There are multiple ways to go.  Without a doubt, it appears that Henderson and Holliday are locks to be in our infield over the next 3-4 years.  Who joins them as the third man?   Westburg,Mayo, Ortiz, Norby?   If it’s Mayo at 3B then I think there is close to zero chance they ask Henderson to move to 2B.  If the 3rd man is Mayo 99% the alignment is:

3B Mayo/SS Henderson/2B Holliday

If the third man is Norby he’s pretty much locked into 2B.   Henderson is probably the best 3B of this trio but he might be the best SS.  I’m going 60:40 the alignment is:

3B Henderson/SS Holliday/2B Norby 

If Westburg is the 3rd man he could be the 2B or 3B but it did look like he was stronger at 2B.  Again, assuming Holliday is a solid SS, which he appeared to be at 19 and should get stronger and better, I’m going with this:

3B Henderson/SS Holliday/2B Westburg 

Last, but not least is Joey Ortiz.  Ortiz looks above average at all 3 spots.  Guessing on this one makes my head hurt.   Holliday could be at any of the 3 spots and Ortiz as well.  I’m only confident that Henderson would either be the SS or 3B.

There you have it.  Henderson has been very impressive at SS and he wants to play there.  Is there a scenario where he moves over to 3B?   Maybe.

Lots of ways this can play out like you posted above, but if I had to look into the "crystal ball" I could see this combination being the main one:

1B: Mayo
2B: Westburg
SS: Holliday
3B: Henderson

I think Ortiz if not traded can mix in at 2B/SS/3B and very well could make Westburg expendable in trade as the everyday 2B. Don't get me wrong, I personally think Ortiz is an everyday SS, but Holliday is a special player and I don't know if they are going to be willing to play him at 2B vs SS. 

Norby to me will be traded or moved to LF where he could end up being a 4th outfield type, especially if they can get him some CF experience. 

The good news is I would be comfortable with multiple players at multiple positions:

Mayo: 1B/3B (though you will have to deal with the bad errors at times)
Henderson:: 3B/SS
Holliday: SS/2B
Ortiz: 2B/SS/3B
Westburg: 2B/3B

 

[Tony-OH]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I did not find the 2023 version of Mateo to be a clearly supremely talented defender.

2022 was really an outlier for Mateo defensively. He was a very inconsistent defender up until 2022 and then was an inconsistent defender in 2023. It's not overly surprising that he regressed closer to his norms.