Cease vs everyone else

[wildbillhiccup]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Got it thanks …. I just don’t buy into the Argument that wins are irrelevant to a starting pitcher. 

Wins are irrelevant when it comes to evaluating a starting pitcher's talent.  I guarantee you that whatever master spreadsheet / workbook / pivot table Elias and/or Sig maintain doesn't even have a column for wins. That's because wins aren't predictive of anything. It's a blind luck stat that hasn't been given any credence since the mid 90s. If you're unwilling to embrace the advanced stats that many have mentioned at least look at Quality Starts instead of Wins.

[ThisIsBirdland]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Wins are irrelevant when it comes to evaluating a starting pitcher's talent.  I guarantee you that whatever master spreadsheet / workbook / pivot table Elias and/or Sig maintain doesn't even have a column for wins. That's because wins aren't predictive of anything. It's a blind luck stat that hasn't been given any credence since the mid 90s. If you're unwilling to embrace the advanced stats that many have mentioned at least look at Quality Starts instead of Wins.

We use Quality Starts in my fantasy league instead of Wins. Cease drove me nuts last year because he was advertised as this top-5 pitcher and I drafted him as such but he never completed 6 innings lol.

[wildbillhiccup]

5 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

We use Quality Starts in my fantasy league instead of Wins. Cease drove me nuts last year because he was advertised as this top-5 pitcher and I drafted him as such but he never completed 6 innings lol.

Same. We switched to Quality Starts years ago. In the past, Cease has just thrown too many pitches to be amongst the Quality Starts leaders. Blake Snell has had the same problem in the past, but he really turned things around last season, which gives me some hope for Cease.  

[ThisIsBirdland]

 

[Sports Guy]

Yea, this doesn’t stop the Yankees. They need another starter.

[ThisIsBirdland]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea, this doesn’t stop the Yankees. They need another starter.

Doesn't sound like they want to part with Spencer Jones or Jasson Dominguez though. I don't see them moving towards Chicago's asking price after actually landing a pitcher. Price would probably have to come down lower than what we all think the O's will end up offering, but maybe Elias never ends up offering that.

[Aristotelian]

29 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

It would be kinda cool if, like, tomorrow, we just signed, oh I don't know, James Paxton or Mike Clevinger, and Mike Elias then made a public statement like "we're done adding to the rotation for the winter," and finally put all of this silly Cease business to bed before this thread turns into a bloodbath.

Also, it would be kind of hilarious to actually see Chris Getz unironically price himself out of his own market. Suitors are seemingly dropping like flies and the Orioles were most likely their best hope for a really good return for Cease with multiple MLB ready pieces to plug in right away.

I don't think that would be cool at all. 

[wildbillhiccup]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea, this doesn’t stop the Yankees. They need another starter.

If they're chalking up Rodon's performance last year to injuries, and truly believe in him I'm not sure I see them signing or trading for another SP. Cole, Rodon, Cortes, and Stroman are a solid enough top four where I could see them just going with Gomez/Schmidt as their 5th. 

It will be interesting to look back on the season to see if the Yankees even upgraded their rotation. If King picks up where he left off last season and if Montas rebounds I'm not sure they have. 

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't think that would be cool at all. 

I’d rather sign Clevinger than pay the iron price for Cease. And it’s possible Clevinger will be just as good as Cease.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

So who all would even still be in on Cease at this point? ATL, NYY (assuming they seal the deal with Snell), CIN, LAD, STL, SEA are all presumably out after adding other SPs.

There aren't a lot of clear cut candidates anymore. BOS? SD? Maybe PHI if they decide to lean even further into the Super Team vibe?

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't think that would be cool at all. 

There's a very good chance that we are ultimately going to just end up with a Clevinger/Paxton/Ryu type anyway, so why not cut right to the chase and save everyone all of the angst?  

Also, that post was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

So who all would even still be in on Cease at this point? ATL, NYY (assuming they seal the deal with Snell), CIN, LAD, STL, SEA are all presumably out after adding other SPs.

There aren't a lot of clear cut candidates anymore. BOS? SD? Maybe PHI if they decide to lean even further into the Super Team vibe?

There's a very good chance that we are ultimately going to just end up with a Clevinger/Paxton/Ryu type anyway, so why not cut right to the chase and save everyone all of the angst?  

Also, that post was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Yankees and Dodgers are likely not out. 

[wildbillhiccup]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’d rather sign Clevinger than pay the iron price for Cease. And it’s possible Clevinger will be just as good as Cease.

Why wouldn't every singe concern that folks have expressed about Michael Wacha in the past apply to Mike Clevinger? 

[dystopia]

4 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

So who all would even still be in on Cease at this point? ATL, NYY (assuming they seal the deal with Snell), CIN, LAD, STL, SEA are all presumably out after adding other SPs.

There aren't a lot of clear cut candidates anymore. BOS? SD? Maybe PHI if they decide to lean even further into the Super Team vibe?

There's a very good chance that we are ultimately going to just end up with a Clevinger/Paxton/Ryu type anyway, so why not cut right to the chase and save everyone all of the angst?  

Also, that post was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Do you mean Stroman?

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Do you mean Stroman?

They made an offer to Snell also.

[bpilktree]

10 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’d rather sign Clevinger than pay the iron price for Cease. And it’s possible Clevinger will be just as good as Cease.

I am at that point make your offer and tell them you got 48 hours to take it or we are gonna go a different way and sign a free agent.  At some point the dance has to be over and you move on to another date.