Spring Training Lineups

[RVAOsFan]

I thought part of the plan for Mateo was to backup CF.... so with Mullins hurt you would think he might be playing..... CF?

[DirtyBird]

9 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I thought part of the plan for Mateo was to backup CF.... so with Mullins hurt you would think he might be playing..... CF?

The plan was to be a super utility guy, which could include some CF, but would still be behind Cowser and Hays there. 2B is more important, as he is already an infielder and might need to cover that spot if they plan to protect Holliday from LHP at bit.

Also, he did start in CF on Sunday.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Is there any 600 OPS hitter more beloved by his team than Mateo is?

Over the last decade, there have been 73 players who had a sub-.700 OPS and yet garnered at least 1500 PA.  Alcides Escobar got 3600 PA at a .642 OPS.  And over 6000 in his whole career.  

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Over the last decade, there have been 73 players who had a sub-.700 OPS and yet garnered at least 1500 PA.  Alcides Escobar got 3600 PA at a .642 OPS.  And over 6000 in his whole career.  

How many were at or below Mateo's .607 last year? I think that's what SG was referring to.

[NCRaven]

If he could hit, he'd be a starter.  That's why he's a backup.  He offers speed and late inning defense.  There's a place for that, even if I'd hope for better.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

How many were at or below Mateo's .607 last year? I think that's what SG was referring to.

Two under .600, and another  six under Mateo’s career .633.   Anyway, I’m not defending Mateo.  Just saying there are some pretty weak hitters that manage to hang around.  

[spleen1015]

Just because it's happened before doesn't mean it needs to happen again, especially on this team.

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Two under .600, and another  six under Mateo’s career .633.   Anyway, I’m not defending Mateo.  Just saying there are some pretty weak hitters that manage to hang around.  

It's few enough that they are exceptions that prove the rule. It's not unprecedented that a guy could be that bad but it's pretty rare. Of course, Mateo's non-hitting skill set is extreme enough that he could be one of those guys. (Mark Belanger is the classic O's historical comp, and Bordick hit .601 for our '97 playoff team).

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Two under .600, and another  six under Mateo’s career .633.   Anyway, I’m not defending Mateo.  Just saying there are some pretty weak hitters that manage to hang around.  

How many of those guys bounced around vs stayed with the same team? (Escobar had a lot with KC and Milwaukee)

And how many of them played because of a lack of options, which is the complete opposite of the Os.

My question was about a team liking a player with a poor OBP. The Os are taking him off his biggest asset, SS defense, and trying to find ways to keep him.  That’s crazy to me.

Edited March 6 by Sports Guy

[interloper]

2 hours ago, RVAOsFan said:

I thought part of the plan for Mateo was to backup CF.... so with Mullins hurt you would think he might be playing..... CF?

How many games has he started in CF this spring, one? They talked such a big game about him playing the outfield, and I guess there's still time, but it seems weird to me that he hasn't played there more, especially with Gunnar back and able to play SS. 

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

 

I like that they are playing him at 2B. That shows they aren't thinking of him as a platoon SS. More like a platoon utility guy to rest a variety of LHB starters. Hopefully he gets some OF innings too 

In 2021, he had a 664 OPS vs lefties. In 2022, his OpS vs lefties was 618. It was 746 last year but iirc, that was greatly elevated by April. He was garbage for most of the year vs lefties.

So, why do we want him to be a platoon guy vs lefties?

[Aristotelian]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

In 2021, he had a 664 OPS vs lefties. In 2022, his OpS vs lefties was 618. It was 746 last year but iirc, that was greatly elevated by April. He was garbage for most of the year vs lefties.

So, why do we want him to be a platoon guy vs lefties?

True, I don't really want Mateo playing all the time even vs lefties, but it's more about the other guys' splits than Mateo's. Gunnar had .618 split, Mullins .708 last year but .579 in '22, we don't know what Holliday/Cowser/Kjerstad are going to do, etc. If those guys need to rest or DH 10 times each, that could come close to Mateo starting most of the time vs LHP. I'd really like to see him play CF too though. 

 

[Frobby]

 

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

My question was about a team liking a player with a poor OBP. The Os are taking him off his biggest asset, SS defense, and trying to find ways to keep him.  That’s crazy to me.

Your question didn’t mention OBP.   It was about OPS.

To your other question, of the 8 guys I mentioned with an OPS under .633, 3 have played with only two teams in the last decade: Nicky Lopez (.630), Adam Engel (.628) and Myles Straw (.625).   Straw is under contract for three more seasons.  

I want to be clear: I’m not arguing that Mateo should be on the team or what his role should be.   I’m just giving some proposed answers to your question of .600 OPS hitters as loved by their teams as Mateo.  I’m personally very dubious that Mateo will provide as much or more value to this team as other candidates might, despite his speed and defensive talents.  
 

[interloper]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

My question was about a team liking a player with a poor OBP. The Os are taking him off his biggest asset, SS defense, and trying to find ways to keep him.  That’s crazy to me.

Hollllld on a minute. I feel like I distinctly recall you advocating for him to get time in CF last year, and the argument against that was what you're saying here. Am I wrong?

[Sports Guy]

22 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

Your question didn’t mention OBP.   It was about OPS.

To your other question, of the 8 guys I mentioned with an OPS under .633, 3 have played with only two teams in the last decade: Nicky Lopez (.630), Adam Engel (.628) and Myles Straw (.625).   Straw is under contract for three more seasons.  

I want to be clear: I’m not arguing that Mateo should be on the team or what his role should be.   I’m just giving some proposed answers to your question of .600 OPS hitters as loved by their teams as Mateo.  I’m personally very dubious that Mateo will provide as much or more value to this team as other candidates might, despite his speed and defensive talents.  
 

I meant to type OPS there.

But here’s the thing. The Os are trying to play Mateo in positions he hasn’t played in. They are trying to find ways to keep him. A guy like Straw has a distinct value because of his defense at a premium position, something Mateo no longer offers to this team.

The Os hold him at a value that just doesn’t logically make sense. 

Edited March 6 by Sports Guy