A year ago, the O's were 43-40 after 83 games

[whatdoiget000]

Everyone just needs to admit that we're behind where we thought we'd be at the ASB.

Everyone thought the team would get better after Eaton and Hendrickson were gone. It hasn't.

Everyone thought the team would get better when Hill joined the rotation. It hasn't.

Everyone thought the team would get better when Reimold and Wieters were called up. It hasn't.

Admit it. We're behind schedule.

Now if the O's surge in the second half and finish strong, we're ahead -- or right on schedule. But they'll have to scramble.

The O's are like a kid who got a failing grade on his interim and needs to cram to get the grade up to a B by the time report cards roll around.

You're missing the point. Has Reimold not hit well? Wieters is finally starting to look like a major league hitter the past week or so. Bergeson is pitching great. Guthrie is having a horrible year--but he's not supposed to be in the plans anyway. Uehara's been injured, and we've had Hill and Berken to replace Simon and Hendrickson. Hill and Berken haven't worked out so far, but here's what's great: For once, the Orioles have other prospects to call up to replace them, they're legitimate prospects. They aren't Hayden Penn and Daniel Cabrera. Penn was what, the 94th best prospect according to Baseball America a few years ago? And D-Cab wasn't even on the list. Now try the 22nd, 25th, and 67th. And we even got a good pitcher out of an unknown guy ( Bergesen!) For once, it's not the Orioles over hyping bad prospects. These guys are good.

[NewMarketSean]

You're missing the point. Has Reimold not hit well? Wieters is finally starting to look like a major league hitter the past week or so. Bergeson is pitching great. Guthrie is having a horrible year--but he's not supposed to be in the plans anyway. Uehara's been injured, and we've had Hill and Berken to replace Simon and Hendrickson. Hill and Berken haven't worked out so far, but here's what's great: For once, the Orioles have other prospects to call up to replace them, they're legitimate prospects. They aren't Hayden Penn and Daniel Cabrera. Penn was what, the 94th best prospect according to Baseball America a few years ago? And D-Cab wasn't even on the list. Now try the 22nd, 25th, and 67th. And we even got a good pitcher out of an unknown guy ( Bergesen!) For once, it's not the Orioles over hyping bad prospects. These guys are good.

I am over player development. I want to see team development now. It's not happening.

[wickedwitch]

Everyone just needs to admit that we're behind where we thought we'd be at the ASB.

Not everyone had the same expectations.

[Cokeman]

I am over player development. I want to see team development now. It's not happening.

Hopefully, player development never stops.

I'm also ready to see more team development though.

[whatdoiget000]

I am over player development. I want to see team development now. It's not happening.

It's unfortunate that you can't see the bright spots, but they're there. Complaining won't make the team change its direction, because it's already pointed in the correct way.

[OrioleWay27]

One thing which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread, and which people seem to be overlooking in regards to the Orioles current record, is that the rest of the AL East is MUCH better than it was last year. The Blue Jays are significantly better, and the Yankees are looking to be much better as well. The Rays I believe are a little worse record-wise than last year, but they were a great team in the second half and we can expect something similar this season if they can get Kazmir and Price to start pitching well.

All of that adds up to a brutal division, and I think it's important to consider that when measuring progress within the context of won-loss records between 2008 and 2009.

The Rays had tons of talent brewing for a couple seasons before they put it all together. The Orioles obviously have less talent, both on the hitting and pitching side, but I really believe we can see a similar drastic improvement starting next season.

I think people are overreacting to the slumps of Markakis and Jones. Markakis has shown that he is a pronounced second-half hitter, and he is also prone to slumps. The O's have faced a ridiculous amount of lefties over the past month, and they face nothing but lefties this entire week. Jones was red-hot for an entire month - it's normal to see a young power hitter struggle mightily after his first sustained and significant hot streak in the majors. We can expect both to turn it on again in the next month or so. If they're still struggling at the end of August, then I would also be concerned, but I'm confident they will turn things around soon.

In general, I think people here are being too short-sighted. Yes, the losing sucks and it's frustrating. We have looked uninspired offensively, defensively, and running the bases. But I see a major difference between this team and the losing versions of Orioles teams of the past 10+ seasons: we have young, talented players who we can expect to get significantly better. At no point in the miserable past 10 seasons have we seen the talent level of guys like Matt Wieters, Nolan Reimold, and Adam Jones. Brad Bergesen looks like he could be a promising innings eater for the middle or back of our rotation for years to come, and aside from a somewhat fluky run from Josh Towers, we haven't seen an Orioles farmhand pitcher flourish at the major league level over an extended period.

We are watching young guys learn the game, and they have either already experienced success, or - in the case of Wieters starting to throw out runners and slowly get comfortable at the plate - you can see they are adapting.

I don't know about anyone else, but even in the midst of a pathetic 5-0 loss last night, I was excited to see Kam Mickolio blow away the side when he came in to pitch. Another promising young pitcher who could possibly be a factor for years to come. Guys like him and the aforementioned young players have a good chance to make an impact. And if they fall short, we have plenty of other pitchers on the way. The lack of hitting talent in the minors is a mild concern, but I think that the Orioles can more easily acquire free agent hitters in the future than pitchers. They just need to do a better job of indentifying the right free agents to sign than they've done in the past, and they need to be willing to spend some money. For once, the future actually looks really good, and there's reason for hope, unlike when previous front offices blew smoke about having a plan.

I do agree that we need to see Tillman and Arrieta up here, and probably Matusz as well. I think Hill should be released and Berken should go to the pen. But either way, people need to be a little more patient for the time being when it comes to the long-term outlook of this team.

[Dadaist]

Admit it. We're behind schedule.

I disagree. I'm not going to start judging the quality of the rebuild until each of the Big 3 are up here.

[Frobby]

One thing which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread, and which people seem to be overlooking in regards to the Orioles current record, is that the rest of the AL East is MUCH better than it was last year. The Blue Jays are significantly better, and the Yankees are looking to be much better as well. The Rays I believe are a little worse record-wise than last year, but they were a great team in the second half and we can expect something similar this season if they can get Kazmir and Price to start pitching well.

I think the division is about the same as last year. I don't think the Blue Jays are better, because their rotation is much weaker than last year. The Rays' pitching is not as good as last year, when they got a little lucky, but their hitting is much better, so on balance I'd say they are close to as good as last year. The Yankees clearly are better, and the Sox are about as good as before.

[olehippi]

I believe the difference....the improvement we're all waiting for....will become evident when there is no late season swoon as we've seen in years past. They will be steadily bad all year, which is a good sign.

[Camden_yardbird]

The thing that I don't like is that I don't forsee Tillman, Arrietta, Matusz, Bergensen, Hernadez/ Erbe being better than any of the following in the next 2 years...

Sabathia, Burnett, Chamberlin, Hughes, some overpriced FA

Beckett, Lester, Buchholtz, Masterson, some overpriced FA

Halladay, McGowan, Marcum, Romero, Richmond

Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price, Davis/ Niemann

And these teams will always have competitve offenses. At least 2/4 of them will likely have elite offenses. The future is bright, that is for sure. But at somepoint something is going to have to click. An elite offensive player or two will have to be acquired. And MacPhail will likely have to breakdown and buy a good arm.

[osfan83]

Perhaps you could expect a better W/L record in the second half, but did you truly believe that this team would have a good first half record knowing we started the season with a rotation of Guthrie, Uehara, Simon, Eaton, Hendrickson?

I think if you're truly disappointed about the W's and L's so far this season, then your expectations were a little out of line to begin with. Sure there have been disappointments, but this season shouldn't be measured by our record right this second.

I would agree that it's important to finish strong and show marked improvement, however.

Its never about W/L's when it comes to the O's. They should never be measured by that standard.

[jets4ever]

For the moment, I have to agree with bigbird. I expected to see progress in the W/L record this year. So far, we definitely are not seeing it.

It'll happen before the season ends.

[The Rick]

Agreed, he's joined Trea and OldFan, IMO, in terms of his redundancy and complete lack of vision. Take the blinders off!

I'm thinking more along the lines of Sapper. At least big bird doesn't keep coming back with equally asinine statements time and time again. He's just consistently negative, ever since AM's taken over. And it seems personal.

[osfan83]

Ultimately, the players have to play but no way should this team collapse this year...if they do, DT should get a lot of the blame.

Wait a second, I thought this year wasn't about W/L's? So what does it matter if we win few games in Aug/Sept?

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

You're missing the point. Has Reimold not hit well? Wieters is finally starting to look like a major league hitter the past week or so. Bergeson is pitching great. Guthrie is having a horrible year--but he's not supposed to be in the plans anyway. Uehara's been injured, and we've had Hill and Berken to replace Simon and Hendrickson. Hill and Berken haven't worked out so far, but here's what's great: For once, the Orioles have other prospects to call up to replace them, they're legitimate prospects. They aren't Hayden Penn and Daniel Cabrera. Penn was what, the 94th best prospect according to Baseball America a few years ago? And D-Cab wasn't even on the list. Now try the 22nd, 25th, and 67th. And we even got a good pitcher out of an unknown guy ( Bergesen!) For once, it's not the Orioles over hyping bad prospects. These guys are good.

Guthrie has had a horrible year much worse than expected, and that has hurt us. I completely agree about Berken and Hill. A lot of people are complaining about how we should be so much better because Hendrickson and Eaton are gone from the rotation but Berken and Hill are producing about the same as those two guys did. Granted they are younger and may get better but they haven't been an improvement at this moment. And to me it's not all that disappointing or surprising that they aren't great. Everyone said Berken is a bullpen guy at best, and Hill was a low risk guy that we hoped may turn into something, but he hasn't.