Pie continues to impress

[Sports Guy]

I generally agree with your less than optimistic assessment of Pie, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that the Cubs are nincompoops.

It's conjecture, but it sure looks to me like they promoted the flashy, toolsy young player despite his shortcomings. They never took the time to make sure he improved on various aspects of his game before being promoted.

It's not like they didn't have some reason. He's great in CF and mashes righties in the minors. Still, the red flags have been easy to see in his numbers.

I think the Cubs handled him poorly, much like the O's handled Chris Ray poorly.

With that assumption, the solid hot streak last year and Crowley's description of Pie as a "monster," I think there's ample reason to hope that Pie has improved significantly since we acquired him last year.

As your sig says...Actions speak louder than words. Pie still has to show me to convince me.

I just want to see Pie get a real chance...Not get 15 at bats a month, see him get 2 hits in that time period and then have people jump up and down and say, see I told you so...he is no good.

He needs to play...He needs consistent at bats.

There is no excuse, outside of injury, for him not to get at least 400 at bats this year but unless there are injuries to other players, I think he will struggle to get 250 at bats.

[Tony-OH]

Pie obviously has / had some very obvious flaws which is why he was available.

But, players with tons of talent but some blemishes can work through the kinks and improve. Others never can and become nothing.

Any argument against Pie getting a legit chance that is based on the fact that the Cubs gave up on him is a pretty weak sauce argument, IMO.

No one made that argument. What you and others are glossing over is that Pie was available for Garrett Olson meaning other teams had evaluated Pie and found him lacking as well.

I think the Orioles made a great trade in getting Pie and I do believe Crowley helped Pie become a decent major leaguer. I just think people are reading waaaay too much into his hot streak when they project what he can become.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're going to see closer to a .750 OPS guy then an .840 OPS guy.

[wildcard]

.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're going to see closer to a .750 OPS guy then an .840 OPS guy.

If Trembley plays him against lefties, I agree.

[Mackus]

No one made that argument. What you and others are glossing over is that Pie was available for Garrett Olson meaning other teams had evaluated Pie and found him lacking as well.

I think the Orioles made a great trade in getting Pie and I do believe Crowley helped Pie become a decent major leaguer. I just think people are reading waaaay too much into his hot streak when they project what he can become.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're going to see closer to a .750 OPS guy then an .840 OPS guy.

Yeah I think he's closer to a .750 guy as well. That would still be tremendously valuable for a guy who can be a above average to well-above average CF or an absolutely elite LF defensively making no money.

If he's an .840 guy, then he's Carl Crawford-type valuable. I don't see him being that type of a star, but I do think he should be getting a lot of playing time this year to get a better idea of what he can be. If he has a .750+ OPS this year while still playing well defensively in both LF and CF, then he's going to be a very valuable asset, either to the team or in the trade market.

[Tony-OH]

Better chance its the Cubs being poor....We have heard from many of the Cubs fans about how upset they were with the way they handled Pie..How he was never given a real chance...How the Cubs just gave up on him too quickly.

This isn't the DRays, Braves or Twins we are talking about here...This is a team that hasn't won anything in forever and felt that a vet was better than Pie...That it gave them a better chance to win.

This wasn't a patient organization that really gave him a chance.

I think the idea that the Cubs dropped him so quickly is totally meaningless. It was obvious Lou P wanted a vet and it was obvious the Cubs handled him poorly.

That would be like saying, John Maine is no good because the Orioles didn't give him a chance...The Orioles were a terrible organization.

Pie really gave the Cubs no reason not to give him regular at bats...but they chose not to...They would rather spend 50 million on Fukudome or give his at bats to Jim Edmonds...That doesn't scream out smart organization to me...and for what I have seen, most Cubs fans agree.

Also, it seems pretty obvious that he works hard...That he is coachable and that he retained what he was being taught last year.

I'm not trying to make the argument that the Cubs are some great judge of talent. But you also have to some credit that he was available and the best the Cubs could get for him was Garrett Olson. Now, maybe they are complete morons, I don't know because honestly I don't follow them that closely, but it does mean that baseball people did not still hold Pie in that high of regard and the only thing he has going for his since then is a 104 PA hot streak.

Either way, this is my last comment about Pie in this thread. I'm tired of people making exaggerations about my opinions or just mis-characterizing what I'm trying to say and I felt I've said my peace.

In this case, I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right because I'd rather under-value someone than over-value them.

[TyCobb]

No one made that argument. What you and others are glossing over is that Pie was available for Garrett Olson meaning other teams had evaluated Pie and found him lacking as well.

I think the Orioles made a great trade in getting Pie and I do believe Crowley helped Pie become a decent major leaguer. I just think people are reading waaaay too much into his hot streak when they project what he can become.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're going to see closer to a .750 OPS guy then an .840 OPS guy.

That hot streak of August gave him this ridiculous Batted Ball data.

22 LD%/ 34 GB%/ 44 FB% / 0 IFFB% / and your standard 22.7% HR/FB from a 6'2'' - 170 lbs hitter.

[Sports Guy]

No one made that argument. What you and others are glossing over is that Pie was available for Garrett Olson meaning other teams had evaluated Pie and found him lacking as well.

I think the Orioles made a great trade in getting Pie and I do believe Crowley helped Pie become a decent major leaguer. I just think people are reading waaaay too much into his hot streak when they project what he can become.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're going to see closer to a .750 OPS guy then an .840 OPS guy.

750 OPS plus his defense likely makes him as a leaguer average OFer..or at least very close to it.

For me, the hot streak reinforced things...But my hopes were high for him before that hot streak..Too much talent, too much upside and too much success in the minors not to be excited about him.

Does that mean he will definitely be good? of course not...Its up to him obviously..he needs to keep working on things..he needs to listen to coaching and then he needs to apply it.

But he should also be given a chance...He is going to put a lot of pressure on himself to perform well if his chances are few and far between and that could really hurt him.

Its up to Pie to perform but its also up to DT to get him in the lineup on a regular basis so that he can apply his skills.

And a regular basis doesn't mean 70 at bats for a month and then basically bench him for 3 months, like DT did last year.

[Sports Guy]

That hot streak of August gave him this ridiculous Batted Ball data.

22 LD%/ 34 GB%/ 44 FB% / 0 IFFB% / and your standard 22.7% HR/FB from a 6'2'' - 170 lbs hitter.

I bet the same thing can be said for most hot streaks...Just as the opposite will apply for a lot of cold streaks...Not that i expect you to acknowledge that or anything.

[napbow]

No team (many teams in the league that weren't going to make the playoffs from the start) offer anything better than a failed starting prospect. I find that very telling on what the league thought of Pie.

Wasn't he out of options making it difficult for teams to acquire him as a reclamation project? We had the ability to keep him on the ML club and play him everyday as we tried to work on his swing and so forth. THere are not many clubs who could sacrifice a roster spot while they tried to develop his talents. I'm sure if he had minor league options there would have been many teams interested.

[Sports Guy]

No one made that argument. What you and others are glossing over is that Pie was available for Garrett Olson meaning other teams had evaluated Pie and found him lacking as well.

I think the Orioles made a great trade in getting Pie and I do believe Crowley helped Pie become a decent major leaguer. I just think people are reading waaaay too much into his hot streak when they project what he can become.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're going to see closer to a .750 OPS guy then an .840 OPS guy.

A player the Cubs seemed to covet all offseason...That has to be part of your statement when you bring this up. He was also a player Seattle and SD wanted as well.

[Sports Guy]

Wasn't he out of options making it difficult for teams to acquire him as a reclamation project? We had the ability to keep him on the ML club and play him everyday as we tried to work on his swing and so forth. THere are not many clubs who could sacrifice a roster spot while they tried to develop his talents. I'm sure if he had minor league options there would have been many teams interested.

Yea..this point gets missed a lot. It won't matter to many of the Pie haters(tony, just so you know I am not putting you in this category) but its obviously valid.

[TyCobb]

750 OPS plus his defense likely makes him as a leaguer average OFer..or at least very close to it.

For me, the hot streak reinforced things...But my hopes were high for him before that hot streak..Too much talent, too much upside and too much success in the minors not to be excited about him.

Does that mean he will definitely be good? of course not...Its up to him obviously..he needs to keep working on things..he needs to listen to coaching and then he needs to apply it.

But he should also be given a chance...He is going to put a lot of pressure on himself to perform well if his chances are few and far between and that could really hurt him.

Its up to Pie to perform but its also up to DT to get him in the lineup on a regular basis so that he can apply his skills.

And a regular basis doesn't mean 70 at bats for a month and then basically bench him for 3 months, like DT did last year.

DT gave Pie more than a chance to succeed. Me and a lot of posters thought Reimold should have been our LF from Opening day last season.

[Mackus]

That hot streak of August gave him this ridiculous Batted Ball data.

22 LD%/ 34 GB%/ 44 FB% / 0 IFFB% / and your standard 22.7% HR/FB from a 6'2'' - 170 lbs hitter.

Of course it gave him ridiculous data, he was on a super hot streak. That's obviously unsustainable. Nobody is suggesting that we think he's gonna be Barry Bonds over a full season.

He's got the potential and the likelihood to be good enough that it is very important to get him ample playing time this year. I don't think that can be argued against and disagree vehemently with anyone who would try.

I'd like to get him 6 starts every two weeks, that's starting about half the time. 3 starts in LF one week, then 2 in LF and one in CF the next. That's a pace for about 375-400 PAs. If he's performing well through the first month or two, then you increase how often he plays, if he's struggling, consider throttling back a bit. But a 375-400 PA season is the pace I'd like to see him on, to start the year.

[TyCobb]

Of course it gave him ridiculous data, he was on a super hot streak. That's obviously unsustainable. Nobody is suggesting that we think he's gonna be Barry Bonds over a full season.

He's got the potential and the likelihood to be good enough that it is very important to get him ample playing time this year. I don't think that can be argued against and disagree vehemently with anyone who would try.

I'd like to get him 6 starts every two weeks, that's starting about half the time. 3 starts in LF one week, then 2 in LF and one in CF the next. That's a pace for about 375-400 PAs. If he's performing well through the first month or two, then you increase how often he plays, if he's struggling, consider throttling back a bit. But a 375-400 PA season is the pace I'd like to see him on, to start the year.

And what if Reimold is giving us a 5 runs above average in LF and hits with a .388 wOBA?

[Sports Guy]

DT gave Pie more than a chance to succeed. Me and a lot of posters thought Reimold should have been our LF from Opening day last season.

That wasn't a lot of chance to succeed...Changing positions and his swing while giving him his "chance" is obviously going to hinder his overall development. That's really not that difficult to figure out.

As for Reimold starting...This isn't a situation about Reimold at all...We all agreed on this board that Reimold forced his way onto this team and they had to play him. That's fine.

We all agree right now that Reimold should be getting everyday at bats as long as he is healthy.

Where the disagreement is where those at bats should occur and how frequently he should be in the OF.

No one on this site has ever said Pie should be taking at bats away from Reimold.