Tejada .971, L. Hernandez .965

[Mad Mark]

If you're saying that all-defense, no-hit players are cheaper than big sluggers I'll agree. That's common sense. Boog Powell was worth more than Aurelio Rodriguez.

But if you mean that a 7.0 win player (3.5 offense/3.5 defense) is going to be cheaper than a 7.0 win player (6.5 offense/0.5 defense) I don't know that that's true.

This is where a giant spreadsheet with win shares and salaries for every major leaguer of the past 20 years would come in handy.

Yeah, I don't know the answer to that one, either. However, I'd be willing to bet that a 7.0 win player who split 0.5 offense/6.5 defense (if that's possible) would be substantially cheaper than the 7.0 win player (6.5 offense/0.5 defense) you mentioned above.

[BirdMan]

Numbers are for nerds, it's all about what you see with your own two eyes. Anyone who has actually played the game of baseball knows this.

The Boston red Sox were put together by a nerd then. I sure wish that nerd worked for the O's.

[now]

If you're saying that all-defense, no-hit players are cheaper than big sluggers I'll agree. That's common sense. Boog Powell was worth more than Aurelio Rodriguez.

But if you mean that a 7.0 win player (3.5 offense/3.5 defense) is going to be cheaper than a 7.0 win player (6.5 offense/0.5 defense) I don't know that that's true.

This is where a giant spreadsheet with win shares and salaries for every major leaguer of the past 20 years would come in handy.

You would think such an obvious solution to our acres of wrangling speculation would be available somewhere already ... perhaps, say, on the computer of an organization with a $100 million budget. It shouldn't even be that hard to put together, either. Maybe we should assign SG the task of assembling one for his homework in the offseason - or heck, with the time off from a day's worth of posts.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah, I don't know the answer to that one, either. However, I'd be willing to bet that a 7.0 win player who split 0.5 offense/6.5 defense (if that's possible) would be substantially cheaper than the 7.0 win player (6.5 offense/0.5 defense) you mentioned above.

That would be hard, but an examples might be 1983 Ozzie Smith (18 RAR with the bat, 48 with the glove) against 1991 Edgar Martinez (49 RAR with bat, 5 with glove). Of course salary depends on a lot of things unrelated to performance like service time, but I'm not entirely sure you'd pay Edgar more than Ozzie.

[Frobby]

Numbers are for nerds, it's all about what you see with your own two eyes. Anyone who has actually played the game of baseball knows this.

The problem is, your own two eyes can fool you if you see a player just a small number of times. When Hernandez was up in June/July, he didn't make a single error, so it was easy to get the impression that he was a really great defensive SS. Since returning this month, he's made three errors in limited action. If someone had not seen him in June/July, but did see him in September, he/she might have gotten the impression that he is terrible defensively. My opinion? Hernandez is probably a better defensive SS than Tejada, but the difference is nowhere near as big as some people seem to think.

[DrungoHazewood]

The problem is, your own two eyes can fool you if you see a player just a small number of times. When Hernandez was up in June/July, he didn't make a single error, so it was easy to get the impression that he was a really great defensive SS. Since returning this month, he's made three errors in limited action. If someone had not seen him in June/July, but did see him in September, he/she might have gotten the impression that he is terrible defensively. My opinion? Hernandez is probably a better defensive SS than Tejada, but the difference is nowhere near as big as some people seem to think.

I'm fairly sure he was kidding...

[Sports Guy]

Did Luis Hernandez's errors not matter?

I mean everytime Tejada made an error we saw some ridiculously stupid 4000 response thread about how awful Miggy was.

Where are the threads abotu Hernandez throwing the ball away?

[Frobby]

I'm fairly sure he was kidding...

Yeah, I think you are right, but there are plenty of other posters who would take it seriously.

[Mackus]

My opinion? Hernandez is probably a better defensive SS than Tejada, but the difference is nowhere near as big as some people seem to think.

Boom goes the dynamite! This is exactly right, IMO.

[Fan4Life]

Yeah, I think you are right, but there are plenty of other posters who would take it seriously.

The FO has sounded like one of them from time to time..

[DrungoHazewood]

Did Luis Hernandez's errors not matter?

I mean everytime Tejada made an error we saw some ridiculously stupid 4000 response thread about how awful Miggy was.

Where are the threads abotu Hernandez throwing the ball away?

When Tejada made a poor play it was surprising, since he's a former MVP, an All Star, a playoff-tested veteran, and a plausible candidate for induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame come 2018 or so.

When Luis Hernandez makes an error it's just one of those things that an overmatched AA journeyman who was unceremoniously let go by the Braves does.

(Ducks from flying objects)

[El Gordo]

The problem is, your own two eyes can fool you if you see a player just a small number of times. When Hernandez was up in June/July, he didn't make a single error, so it was easy to get the impression that he was a really great defensive SS. Since returning this month, he's made three errors in limited action. If someone had not seen him in June/July, but did see him in September, he/she might have gotten the impression that he is terrible defensively. My opinion? Hernandez is probably a better defensive SS than Tejada, but the difference is nowhere near as big as some people seem to think.

Rating defense is so difficult in comparison to offense. To my mind the diferences in RF and ZR are much more important than FPCT. No one accepts that the O's are the best fielding team in the AL because they have the highest FPCT. LH reminds me a lot of Aparicio. He has great hands, is very fluid, with a strong arm and terrific range. I would like to see his MiL feilding stats to see if they are simiilar to his ML numbers. If they are he is superior defensively to Adam Everett who seems to be generally regarded as the best fielding SS. How many times did Trembley watch Miggi wave at a run scoring single up the middle and say to himself "damn Looie would have had that." If it was more than 10 times it becomes significant considering all the 1 run games we've lost.

[Fairfax Bird]

Did Luis Hernandez's errors not matter?

I mean everytime Tejada made an error we saw some ridiculously stupid 4000 response thread about how awful Miggy was.

Where are the threads abotu Hernandez throwing the ball away?

I will say this, I grossly overestimated LH at SS. He is good, he has good range, but he is going to throw a lot of balls away cause his arm isn't that strong.

I will stick with my assessment that Miggy is no longer a good option at SS. Roch has quoted scouts that have said the same thing. He is slow, his range is bad, he never charges ground balls, and he seems to make errors at the worst possible time.

You can throw defensive stats at me all you want, but it won't change the fact that Miggy is a below average SS. He simply doesn't get to enough balls and he rarely charges a ball leading to a lot of infield singles.

[Gurgi]

Not quite. I have seen Tejada for four years not go to the left good. He completely forgot how to dive until these last two weeks then suddenly remembered how. Why? Maybe he was motivated by all the bad press. I don't know. He also does have a diminshed range even to his right. He also misplays turning double plays that dont get counted as errors.

Young players make errors usually on exuberance. Mostly on throwing errors not yet understanding when to eat the ball or slow down.

Older guys either dont get to the ball in the first place or fumble it when they do. Tejada is in this catagory now.

Since good hitting SS are hard to find it seems to me they are a luxury item. For a team that isnt that good we cant afford the luxury. We should get better defensively and get our run production back at positions where power is expected. Third. LF. Thus the power should technically be cheaper right? Since it comes from a historically powerful position?

[square634]

You would think such an obvious solution to our acres of wrangling speculation would be available somewhere already ... perhaps, say, on the computer of an organization with a $100 million budget. It shouldn't even be that hard to put together, either. Maybe we should assign SG the task of assembling one for his homework in the offseason - or heck, with the time off from a day's worth of posts.

The problem is, where are you going to get an accurate assessment of defensive win shares?