The Orioles, the media and the Hangout

[El Gordo]

I'm not going to get into any of this one way or the other honestly because if I do I'm going to open up a can of worms for when my piece does come out. All I will say is that Dave is not the kind of guy who is going to badmouth his employer to the media, and even though I got along with Dave, my relationship with Dave was media-manager.

Dave would tell me stuff about the team off to the side occasionally, but we never had a conversation about internal Orioles politics.

Thanks Tony. That's good to know. I for one, will assume Dave is not a source for whatever you end up saying.

[ScottieBaseball]

I'm going to go on record right now by saying I have not had one conversation with Dave since he was let go. I will not confirm or deny anyone else but I want to make sure Dave's name is not pulled through the mud. Let's squelch this right now.

So you'll neither confirm nor deny that your source is, in fact, Erik Bedard?

:rofl:

[JackO]

Well then shame on him for not being able to distinguish between who posts to the message board and who provides front page content for this site.

What do you do for a living clarence? Would you bristle at being called an amateur despite your qualifications, background, performance, and integrity? I would. Not so much with what I do here, but if someone called me an amateur at my full-time job? Hell yeah...I'd take 'em to task.

I'm sure the members of the staff to whom my comments applied (educated, ethical, etc.) would let the 'pro-am' comments roll off their backs like water off a duck's back, but it's in my nature to put my proverbial foot down in situations like these.

Scottie... I distinguished between the two -- the staffers and the "insiders" -- several times. I know the messages here come fast and furious, so it's easy to miss things.

And when I said I was making assumptions, I did so to make it clear that I did not know the fact and that I could have been wrong.

I have also said that I value the stuff that the pro-am guys write, which is why I come back to the hangout every friggin day.

And based on what you said regarding the staff writers here, it sounds like I pretty much nailed it. The hangout is a stepping stone for them and a forum as they seek full time jobs and pursue careers in journalism. I am glad you guys pay them something.

[ScottieBaseball]

Scottie... I distinguished between the two -- the staffers and the "insiders" -- several times. I know the messages here come fast and furious, so it's easy to miss things.

And when I said I was making assumptions, I did so to make it clear that I did not know the fact and that I could have been wrong.

I have also said that I value the stuff that the pro-am guys write, which is why I come back to the hangout every friggin day.

And based on what you said regarding the staff writers here, it sounds like I pretty much nailed it. The hangout is a stepping stone for them and a forum as they seek full time jobs and pursue careers in journalism. I am glad you guys pay them something.

LOL...okay. You still don't see how what you're saying is even slightly back-handed?

I don't deny this place might be a stepping stone for some of these guys, but it's insulting to still refer to them as pro-am. I accept the label and wear it proudly, but the other guys I mentioned don't. Heck...one of them freelances already for a daily print publication.

You're being deliberately snobbish now. I'm not saying any of them are on the verge of winning a Pulitzer, but it's nice of you to put them in their place Jacko.

[JackO]

LOL...okay. You still don't see how what you're saying is even slightly back-handed?

I don't deny this place might be a stepping stone for some of these guys, but it's insulting to still refer to them as pro-am. I accept the label and wear it proudly, but the other guys I mentioned don't. Heck...one of them freelances already for a daily print publication.

You're being deliberately snobbish now. I'm not saying any of them are on the verge of winning a Pulitzer, but it's nice of you to put them in their place Jacko.

UGGH. Not at all... This is the way journalism works. Look. I got to where I am because I found a great internship that paid me bubkis and allowed me to write for a respectable publication.

That was pro-am.

I would liken the hangout gig as a similar opportunity. It gives these guys a chance to start making contacts, write on a regular basis, get clips and they probably get paid next to nothing -- which is just icing -- for the opportunity to do something that is a lot of fun.

[ScottieBaseball]

UGGH. Not at all... This is the way journalism works. Look. I got to where I am because I found a great internship that paid me bubkis and allowed me to write for a respectable publication.

That was pro-am.

I would liken the hangout gig as a similar opportunity. It gives these guys a chance to start making contacts, write on a regular basis, get clips and they probably get paid next to nothing -- which is just icing -- for the opportunity to do something that is a lot of fun.

My apologies. I understand what you were saying now. Thanks for typing it slowly so I'd get it this time.

Sorry...I tend to be slightly defensive of my family, friends, and co-workers. I realize now you weren't trying to be insultive. My bad!

[Nigel Tufnel]

My bad!

Too soon, Scottie, too soon!

[Tony-OH]

My apologies. I understand what you were saying now. Thanks for typing it slowly so I'd get it this time.

Sorry...I tend to be slightly defensive of my family, friends, and co-workers. I realize now you weren't trying to be insultive. My bad!

I think Jack-O has his thoughts on this matter and honestly, I'm sure there are other journalists who have the same feeling about us lowly internet guys. Thankfully, lots and lot of people give a lot more credit and I'll hang my hat on those instead of some guy who wants to degrade as some second-tiered wannabe journalists.

This isn't rocket-science, it's journalism and 85% of this board could do it and do it well. I kinda find it funny when "real" journalists try to put us down like they have some sort of secret training that makes them more worthy than someone else.

People pay attention to what we say and we get press credentials because we are professional in how we act and how we report things. I've been doing this for 15 years and over that time I've certainly made some mistakes along the way. At this point, I'm pretty sure I understand how to talk with sources and understand who might have an ax to grind and who might be willing to tell the truth. I also clearly understand about getting corroborating sources which is what I'm in the process of doing. Oh, an my pro-am butt will also give the Orioles an opportunity to respond before posting my piece.

Maybe I don't do this fulltime and maybe people are only paying me to access my site and not write as Mr Jack-O said, but in the end, I'm able to look myself in the mirror and know I did things right and the story will stand on that merit.

Pro-am or not, people seem to like it and honestly, I'm more concerned with informing Orioles fans then I am trying to win over a journalist who looks down upon anyone not in his full-time club.

[beardbr]

I think Jack-O has his thoughts on this matter and honestly, I'm sure there are other journalists who have the same feeling about us lowly internet guys. Thankfully, lots and lot of people give a lot more credit and I'll hang my hat on those instead of some guy who wants to degrade as some second-tiered wannabe journalists.

This isn't rocket-science, it's journalism and 85% of this board could do it and do it well. I kinda find it funny when "real" journalists try to put us down like they have some sort of secret training that makes them more worthy than someone else.

People pay attention to what we say and we get press credentials because we are professional in how we act and how we report things. I've been doing this for 15 years and over that time I've certainly made some mistakes along the way. At this point, I'm pretty sure I understand how to talk with sources and understand who might have an ax to grind and who might be willing to tell the truth. I also clearly understand about getting corroborating sources which is what I'm in the process of doing. Oh, an my pro-am butt will also give the Orioles an opportunity to respond before posting my piece.

Maybe I don't do this fulltime and maybe people are only paying me to access my site and not write as Mr Jack-O said, but in the end, I'm able to look myself in the mirror and know I did things right and the story will stand on that merit.

Pro-am or not, people seem to like it and honestly, I'm more concerned with informing Orioles fans then I am trying to win over a journalist who looks down upon anyone not in his full-time club.

Tony, i think I have been reading hangout for most of those 15 years, and can say you do an amazing job. What I would really love to read is a book written on everything that has gone on, and all the problems and issues over the last 13-15 years to take a team that was almost in the World Series to a total embarrassment. Even if someone wasn't an Orioles fan, if well written and researched, would be a great baseball book

[Tony-OH]

Tony, i think I have been reading hangout for most of those 15 years, and can say you do an amazing job. What I would really love to read is a book written on everything that has gone on, and all the problems and issues over the last 13-15 years to take a team that was almost in the World Series to a total embarrassment. Even if someone wasn't an Orioles fan, if well written and researched, would be a great baseball book

Thanks. Funny thing is, someone else told me to do the same thing, but I don't have the time to put something like that together. If half the things I've been told over the last 15 years were true it would make a heck of a book though

[ScottieBaseball]

Thanks. Funny thing is, someone else told me to do the same thing, but I don't have the time to put something like that together. If half the things I've been told over the last 15 years were true it would make a heck of a set of encyclopedias though

Fixed that for you Tony.

[Orioles West]

I've been a print and broadcast journalist and previously contributed to a number of online sites as well, and I don't understand why any of the old perceptions linger at this point.

I understood the differences 20-years ago, but times have changed. And the primary problem I remember people having with online blog type of communities were sources. Online communities reflected the one source/anonymous source gossip style of reporting found on TV magazine shows like Entertainment Tonight.

Since I've been here, all I've seen is professional reports on the the main page, opinion pieces clearly noted as such and heck, even the forum discussions are maintained to make sure members are not quoting non-existing sources.

So where does a guy who was a sports editor and had his own radio show for a decade log on to FIRST to find out the scoop on the Orioles? Right here, of course.

-Don

[Mackus]

This isn't rocket-science, it's journalism and 85% of this board could do it and do it well.

These days they let pretty much anybody get into rocket scientry, too

[Frobby]

I think Jack-O has his thoughts on this matter and honestly, I'm sure there are other journalists who have the same feeling about us lowly internet guys. Thankfully, lots and lot of people give a lot more credit and I'll hang my hat on those instead of some guy who wants to degrade as some second-tiered wannabe journalists.

This isn't rocket-science, it's journalism and 85% of this board could do it and do it well. I kinda find it funny when "real" journalists try to put us down like they have some sort of secret training that makes them more worthy than someone else.

People pay attention to what we say and we get press credentials because we are professional in how we act and how we report things. I've been doing this for 15 years and over that time I've certainly made some mistakes along the way. At this point, I'm pretty sure I understand how to talk with sources and understand who might have an ax to grind and who might be willing to tell the truth. I also clearly understand about getting corroborating sources which is what I'm in the process of doing. Oh, an my pro-am butt will also give the Orioles an opportunity to respond before posting my piece.

Maybe I don't do this fulltime and maybe people are only paying me to access my site and not write as Mr Jack-O said, but in the end, I'm able to look myself in the mirror and know I did things right and the story will stand on that merit.

Pro-am or not, people seem to like it and honestly, I'm more concerned with informing Orioles fans then I am trying to win over a journalist who looks down upon anyone not in his full-time club.

I think there is a difference between reporting for the Hangout and a full blown newspaper. Newspapers have lawyers who give both general and specific advice on how to avoid libel suits. They have ombudsmen who deal with journalistic ethics and are experts in the field. They have multiple layers of editors. Many of their employees went to journalism school, and have had formal training on ethics, reporting techniques, etc. Newspapers in big cities have the pick of the litter among journalism students, they can be extremely selective in who they hire. And they have significant economic resources they can bring to bear.

So, I don't consider it a knock on the Hangout, or its editors and staff, to say that there's a difference between being a journalist for the Hangout and being one for the Sun, in terms of what goes into publishing a story.

The Hangout staff, in my opinion, writes very well and is very dedicated. They are professional in the sense that they are paid, and they are professional in the sense that they take their responsibilities seriously. But I don't think they are subject to all the benefits, constraints and checks and balances of a major newspaper. So, they may be able to write things that a major newspaper would not publish for various reasons.

All I really know is that, when it comes to Orioles news and analysis, what I read here is the best there is.

[BaltimoreTerp]

These days they let pretty much anybody get into rocket scientry, too

I think they disqualify people that spell it that way, though