Talks with Mets pick back up

[El Gordo]

Injury prone doesn't have to mean arm related - if the guy hurts something he's going to miss games. He's only really had one healthy season in the majors and he's not getting any younger. A knee injury sidelined him for two months and the oblique ended his season. I doubt you can count on him to pitch 200+ innings because he hasn't shown he can do it yet without getting hurt, therefore the injury prone label fits...

This is silly; he's only had 4 full seasons in the majors. The fisrt he was coming off TJ surgery and in the last two of them he pitched 196 and 182 innings. You're making too much out of 22 innings . Arm injuries or anything related to mechanics are what matter with pitchers. Your essentially saying one knee problem and an oblique injury over 4 years make him injury prone.

[El Gordo]

No one talks about him like this...You just take it that way, which isn't all that surprising.

However, when thinking about signing him long term, this is something you have worry about him.

You better believe if the Orioles go to arbitration with Bedard, they will bring it up.

If something minor crops up every year and every year he missed 3-5 starts, that is 3-5 starts you have to use a minor leaguer or swingman to pitch for you. That could make a huge difference later on.

Try reading the post I was responding to. What does "injury prone" mean in your lexicon oh almighty one. Would you apply that to Pavano or Burnett or do you have some other more rarified term.

[Dr. FLK]

This is silly; he's only had 4 full seasons in the majors. The fisrt he was coming off TJ surgery and in the last two of them he pitched 196 and 182 innings. You're making too much out of 22 innings . Arm injuries or anything related to mechanics are what matter with pitchers. Your essentially saying one knee problem and an oblique injury over 4 years make him injury prone.

It goes to durability. Why are arm problems all that matter? It seems to me that if it's an issue keeping him from pitching...then it's a problem. It's not a huge deal, but it's worse than no injury problems.

[Dr. FLK]

Try reading the post I was responding to. What does "injury prone" mean in your lexicon oh almighty one. Would you apply that to Pavano or Burnett or do you have some other more rarified term.

Personally, I'd put Pavano in the "Disaster" category and Burnett in the "Fragile" category.

[El Gordo]

It goes to durability. Why are arm problems all that matter? It seems to me that if it's an issue keeping him from pitching...then it's a problem. It's not a huge deal, but it's worse than no injury problems.

I'll take 180 + inngs from Bedard any season. It seems to me given the nature of the job 2 non-arm related injuries in 4 seasons is not a major injury risk. Look at Becket's finger nail-blister problems, I'd be more worried about them than Bedard's oblique. This injury stuff is just flak to try to pad the arguments of people who want to trade Bedard rather than extend him. I personally would prefer trading him but I don't regard him as injury prone.

[Boy Howdy]

This is silly; he's only had 4 full seasons in the majors. The fisrt he was coming off TJ surgery and in the last two of them he pitched 196 and 182 innings. You're making too much out of 22 innings . Arm injuries or anything related to mechanics are what matter with pitchers. Your essentially saying one knee problem and an oblique injury over 4 years make him injury prone.

It's not about 22 innings.

In Bedard's two healthiest seasons (2006-7), he pitched 74 1/3 fewer regular season innings than Santana. That's a third of a season right there.

When people (not necessarily you) try to compare the two, they must frist remember that. Then chew on the fact that Santana went 36-13 the two previous years; leading the league in strikeouts both times with a Cy Young award and first & second place ERA finishes. All while, Bedard wasn't even working enough innings to qualify for the ERA title.

I love Bedard, but he's not there yet. Hopefully (to me), the O's will re-sign him and we can watch him do in black 'n' orange. Bigbird's post about MacPhail possibly leaning that way is encouraging to me.

[Dr. FLK]

I'll take 180 + inngs from Bedard any season. It seems to me given the nature of the job 2 non-arm related injuries in 4 seasons is not a major injury risk. Look at Becket's finger nail-blister problems, I'd be more worried about them than Bedard's oblique. This injury stuff is just flak to try to pad the arguments of people who want to trade Bedard rather than extend him. I personally would prefer trading him but I don't regard him as injury prone.

I would agree it's not major. It worries me some, but it definitely doesn't put him in the Pavano/Burnett category. I don't know if I would label him "injury prone" either. But, it's definitely something to keep an eye on.

[RShack]

This is silly; he's only had 4 full seasons in the majors. The fisrt he was coming off TJ surgery and in the last two of them he pitched 196 and 182 innings. You're making too much out of 22 innings . Arm injuries or anything related to mechanics are what matter with pitchers. Your essentially saying one knee problem and an oblique injury over 4 years make him injury prone.

No kidding. If he'd had the exact same injuries only 1 measly week later, then he'd have back-to-back 200 IP's, and everybody would be saying he's Super Stud....

[Dr. FLK]

No kidding. If he'd had the exact same injuries only 1 measly week later, then he'd have back-to-back 200 IP's, and everybody would be saying he's Super Stud....

I think most people will agree that he is a super-stud...assuming that refers to his baseball ability.

[El Gordo]

It's not about 22 innings.

In Bedard's two healthiest seasons (2006-7), he pitched 74 1/3 fewer regular season innings than Santana. That's a third of a season right there.

When people (not necessarily you) try to compare the two, they must frist remember that. Then chew on the fact that Santana went 36-13 the two previous years; leading the league in strikeouts both times with a Cy Young award and first & second place ERA finishes. All while, Bedard wasn't even working enough innings to qualify for the ERA title.

I love Bedard, but he's not there yet. Hopefully (to me), the O's will re-sign him and we can watch him do in black 'n' orange. Bigbird's post about MacPhail possibly leaning that way is encouraging to me.

I wasn't comparing Bedard to Santana, merely saying you can't consider him injury prone.

[Tx Oriole]

Sorry butr i hope the O's trade him El because of what he will bring back. I don't know about enjury prone or not but i am thinking about the future of the O's. I just think it is better in the long run for the O's and Bedard to part company.

[66-70-83-??]

This is silly; he's only had 4 full seasons in the majors. The fisrt he was coming off TJ surgery and in the last two of them he pitched 196 and 182 innings. You're making too much out of 22 innings . Arm injuries or anything related to mechanics are what matter with pitchers. Your essentially saying one knee problem and an oblique injury over 4 years make him injury prone.

Bedard has been in the big leagues for four (4) full seasons.

He has averaged 164 Innings in those four years.

Is that how you define durable ?

Name me an "ace" who only averages 164 innings ?

Name me a pitcher with the "ace" label who has yet to have pitched 200 innings in a year ?

Name me any "ace" who put together his first 200 IP season at age 29 or later ?

Statistically, the odds are heavily in favor of trading him being a better option than signing him long term.

That said- if AM wants to keep him, ok. He is the expert. Not me.

[TyCobb]

Bedard has been in the big leagues for four (4) full seasons.

He has averaged 164 Innings in those four years.

Is that how you define durable ?

Name me an "ace" who only averages 164 innings ?

Name me a pitcher with the "ace" label who has yet to have pitched 200 innings in a year ?

Name me any "ace" who put together his first 200 IP season at age 29 or later ?

Statistically, the odds are heavily in favor of trading him being a better option than signing him long term.

That said- if AM wants to keep him, ok. He is the expert. Not me.

Look at Josh Beckett. He is much younger than Bedard but it took him 4 season before he got to 200 ip.

[El Gordo]

Bedard has been in the big leagues for four (4) full seasons.

He has averaged 164 Innings in those four years.

Is that how you define durable ?

Name me an "ace" who only averages 164 innings ?

Name me a pitcher with the "ace" label who has yet to have pitched 200 innings in a year ?

Name me any "ace" who put together his first 200 IP season at age 29 or later ?

Statistically, the odds are heavily in favor of trading him being a better option than signing him long term.

That said- if AM wants to keep him, ok. He is the expert. Not me.

I am saying Bedard is not injury prone. I made no claims about him being and "ace" or anything else. As usual you are addressing arguments I'm not making. One of his 4 years was his first full year in the ML after TJ surgery you would hardly expect him to pitch 200 innings in that situation. Is the difference between 182 or 196 innings and 200 so much, that you consider the former as evidence of being injury prone?

[Sports Guy]

Try reading the post I was responding to. What does "injury prone" mean in your lexicon oh almighty one. Would you apply that to Pavano or Burnett or do you have some other more rarified term.

To me, injury prone means that he is more prone to injury than a lot of others....Well, bedard fits into that category IMO.

Over 30 starts once and never over 200 innings.

It is a small thing because, as you said, he has been close to 200 inings twice however, when deciding on if you want to spend 50+ million dollars over a 4+ year span, this has to be considered seriously...If you don't, you are just making a stupid decision.