Astros possibly moving to AL?

[nate22]

No way the PU agrees to that, DH is a good paying gig.

Yeah, I doubt they'd go for it. It's too bad because if our pitchers hit our offense would be unstoppable.

[DrungoHazewood]

I know you've discussed before rotating divisions based on performance. I still really like that idea. I was joking in my previous posts, but I do agree the league needs to do more to promote teams putting out a better product. Its a shame that some teams only spend 40 million on a team. I know MLB would never go for that sort of rotation, but it would least provide better entertainment to fans in places like Baltimore and Kansas City. Finish out the season with a 4 game series against Boston and they are on the brink of getting knocked down a peg. Stadium would fill up with Orioles fans hoping for four wins. I am all for measures that promote a more entertaining product. I don't know what the league can realistically do to promote more fair teams or making teams spend more, but at least make it more entertaining.

There are a lot of things to like, and some to dislike, about a promotion/relegation setup. But that kind of thing is essentially impossible in a closed league like MLB. It would take massive structural changes.

Anyway, that is probably the very best way to incentivize winning. Teams almost never tank a season and never go into a total rebuild mode for fear of being relegated and losing tons of revenues and franchise value. It's pretty common for soccer teams to push themselves to the brink of (or all the way to) bankruptcy trying to acquire players and avoid relegation. It's kind of Trea's dream scenario - it might actually make fiscal sense for a team like the O's to sign Prince Fielder rather than face a serious risk of being sent to the minors and having their revenues cut by 75%.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I got excited for a SEC when I read the thread title.

Fixed :wedge:

[Moose Milligan]

I think I've survived a lot of crappy Orioles baseball for the past 14 years. But if the O's had to move to the NL, I think that'd be the final nail in the coffin.

[Boston Dave]

I wonder what the best wisdom would be, schedule wise, if the leagues expand (I would assume once and for all) to 16\16. NFL style 8 4-team divisions. Balanced schedule, or only slightly unbalanced. Reduced or eliminated interleague play. I would support a slightly shorter season as well (say, to 154 games). "I have a dream."

[SammyBirdland]

If the Astros move to the American League, MLB will add an extra Wild Card team next year.

Source

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

There are a lot of things to like, and some to dislike, about a promotion/relegation setup. But that kind of thing is essentially impossible in a closed league like MLB. It would take massive structural changes.

Anyway, that is probably the very best way to incentivize winning. Teams almost never tank a season and never go into a total rebuild mode for fear of being relegated and losing tons of revenues and franchise value. It's pretty common for soccer teams to push themselves to the brink of (or all the way to) bankruptcy trying to acquire players and avoid relegation. It's kind of Trea's dream scenario - it might actually make fiscal sense for a team like the O's to sign Prince Fielder rather than face a serious risk of being sent to the minors and having their revenues cut by 75%.

The issue I have with a relegation system is that it makes it very difficult to build the proper way. The Rays, for example, would never have attained the success they currently are having. You are forced to sacrifice the future for short term gains to avoid being sent down.

We complain about MLB, but look at the top of the EPL. Every year you see the same teams: Man U, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. You could forget parody in that system unless you instituted a much tougher cap.

[Palmoripken]

I like the idea of the Stros moving to the AL. Put them in the AL West and they get an instant state rivalry with the Rangers and each league has 15 teams with 3 divisions with fifteen each in it. Honest, I thought it was ridiculous that Milwaukee moved to the NL in the first place. I know historically Milwaukee felt they were an NL city because of the Braves but they actually spent more time as the Brewers in the AL then the Braves were ever in Milwaukee. If the O's moved to the NL, I wouldn't care. I am not pro or anti DH one way or the other.

[JTrea81]

I think I've survived a lot of crappy Orioles baseball for the past 14 years. But if the O's had to move to the NL, I think that'd be the final nail in the coffin.

Our pitchers would probably be among the best hitting pitchers in the NL though. We'd actually have an advantage.

And without having to face a DH, their ERAs would automatically lower.

[DrungoHazewood]

The issue I have with a relegation system is that it makes it very difficult to build the proper way. The Rays, for example, would never have attained the success they currently are having. You are forced to sacrifice the future for short term gains to avoid being sent down.

Yes, that is a significant drawback. Teams will sell the uniforms off their backs to acquire a player who'll keep them out of the relegation zone. It's very difficult to build a team from within when you know that you're on the cusp of losing $10s or $100s of millions if you don't win now.

But... a team like the Orioles would almost have to take some kind of positive action, or get sent away. There's no sitting around winning 67 games a year. Just by dumb luck you'll get demoted one year, and then you'll take the huge hit, and have to try to claw your way back. Somehow I see an Angelos-led team ending up like Sheffield United, who fell from the Premier League two steps down to League 1 within a few seasons.

We complain about MLB, but look at the top of the EPL. Every year you see the same teams: Man U, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc.

But that's an artifact of their open system, and the independence of each club. Each team plays most of their games in the league, but they're really independent entities who play in other club competitions, cups, tournaments, friendlies, foreign tours, etc. They don't share any of that revenue, they don't have any kind of salary restraint, or restrictions on who can own a team. Unless MLB was going to adopt that entire setup there's no reason to think you'd have the same level of imbalance. It's not like you have to allow billionaire Russian oligarchs to own teams and disallow all revenue sharing and caps just to implement a promotion/relegation scheme.

You could forget parody in that system unless you instituted a much tougher cap.

As long as Peter Angelos owns a MLB team you can always have a parody of a real baseball team!

[DrungoHazewood]

Our pitchers would probably be among the best hitting pitchers in the NL though. We'd actually have an advantage.

You can't possibly be using the O's 1.045 OPS out of their pitchers as a mark of quality, are you? That's in 22 PAs. Last year they had a .145(!!!) OPS, and the year before a .340. I'd assume that the Orioles, upon moving to the NL, would gain 0.0000000000000001 wins because of their pitchers hitting.

And without having to face a DH, their ERAs would automatically lower.

Unless the park effects and quality of batters faced in the other league made up for the differences in pitchers and pinch hitters vs. DHs. There have been years where the NL's run level was very close to the AL's, like 2010.

[LookitsPuck]

Our pitchers would probably be among the best hitting pitchers in the NL though. We'd actually have an advantage.

And without having to face a DH, their ERAs would automatically lower.

If you really think the hitting of the Orioles pitchers this year would translate well over a full season...then..I just don't know what to say.

Guess what? We don't have the pitching to contend regardless of what division we're in. Using the division (or even league) as a crux is just ridiculous to me. How about we draft and develop better? How about properly scout? How about sign the right veterans?

[Can_of_corn]

Unless the park effects and quality of batters faced in the other league made up for the differences in pitchers and pinch hitters vs. DHs. There have been years where the NL's run level was very close to the AL's, like 2010.

In the American Leagues defense they did have both the 2010 Orioles and Mariners holding them back.

[DrungoHazewood]

Guess what? We don't have the pitching to contend regardless of what division we're in. Using the division (or even league) as a crux is just ridiculous to me. How about we draft and develop better? How about properly scout? How about sign the right veterans?

While the O's wouldn't be a contender in any division, you can make a pretty good argument that an average AL team would be about a .550 team in the NL. So put the O's in a weak NL division and they might only be 15 games from serious wildcard contention.

[DrungoHazewood]

In the American Leagues defense they did have both the 2010 Orioles and Mariners holding them back.

In 2005 Oriole DHs had a .640 OPS. I think I once calculated that they'd have only lost a handful of games, maybe 2-3, in the standings if they'd just let their pitchers hit all year.