If they stay in contention - Trade Idea

[Roll Tide]

Why would Jones be unlikely to extend? The Orioles have cash to spend and he's worth as much if not more to us than other teams. Jones seems to like playing here; he's close with Buck and a leader on the team. Why would he leave? If a decent trade offer crops up for Reynolds at the deadline and we're not contending, moving him would make a ton of sense because his option is absurd. JJ's production matches or exceeds his contract, moving him wouldn't seem to make a ton of sense until Machado comes up, and even then he could possibly move to third.

We need SP depth, sure, but so does every other team. Pitchers capable of starting in the major leagues aren't exactly a dime a dozen, and once Britton comes back thats another quality guy. The Yankees and Redsox have both had to move relievers to the rotation this year, similar to what we were contemplating with JJ after last year, but didn't have to resort to.

Jones wants way more than he's worth and that's why it hasn't happened IMO.

[El Gordo]

Why would Jones be unlikely to extend? The Orioles have cash to spend and he's worth as much if not more to us than other teams. Jones seems to like playing here; he's close with Buck and a leader on the team. Why would he leave? If a decent trade offer crops up for Reynolds at the deadline and we're not contending, moving him would make a ton of sense because his option is absurd. JJ's production matches or exceeds his contract, moving him wouldn't seem to make a ton of sense until Machado comes up, and even then he could possibly move to third.

We need SP depth, sure, but so does every other team. Pitchers capable of starting in the major leagues aren't exactly a dime a dozen, and once Britton comes back thats another quality guy. The Yankees and Redsox have both had to move relievers to the rotation this year, similar to what we were contemplating with JJ after last year, but didn't have to resort to.

Why are the O's doing well. Pitching. Why are the Sux sucking? Pitching. Can't have too much, and we don't have enough. JJ is Jim Johnson, not Hardy, and he would bring a a big haul at the deadline, if not sooner, with all the closers going down. I believe in Pedro! If we had Bourjos in CF and Callaspo at 3B, we'd be a better team than one with Jones in CF. We can get much more than those two guys for Jones IMO.

[mcinww0]

Why are the O's doing well. Pitching. Why are the Sux sucking? Pitching. Can't have too much, and we don't have enough. JJ is Jim Johnson, not Hardy, and he would bring a a big haul at the deadline, if not sooner, with all the closers going down. I believe in Pedro! If we had Bourjos in CF and Callaspo at 3B, we'd be a better team than one with Jones in CF. We can get much more than those two guys for Jones IMO.

Bourjos and Callaspo both have career a OPS+ under 100; how would they be an upgrade over Jones and our 3B, be it Reynolds or Betemit? I don't care how good their defense is, it wouldn't make up for their offensive inadequacies. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, no matter how bad Jones looked with RISP last night.

If one can never have enough pitching, then shouldn't we hang onto Johnson? And I love Strop, but when you have a guy that good and he's not closing, it speaks volumes, especially considering the duds they've been trotting out there for years. Pitching is valuable but if the offense can't score, then you're left looking like the Oakland A's or the Padres of 2011 (maybe this year, too). Its not like our offense is scoring a steady 5 runs a game, either, so losing Jones to Peter Bourjos wouldn't help.

On a side note, how the heck did Bourjos have a oWAR of 3.6 last year while getting on base at a .327 rate and hitting 12 home runs? I'm almost convinced its a typo on baseball reference. BTW Bourjos struck out more than Jones did last year in fewer at bats

[Il BuonO]

Why are the O's doing well. Pitching. Why are the Sux sucking? Pitching. Can't have too much, and we don't have enough. JJ is Jim Johnson, not Hardy, and he would bring a a big haul at the deadline, if not sooner, with all the closers going down. I believe in Pedro! If we had Bourjos in CF and Callaspo at 3B, we'd be a better team than one with Jones in CF. We can get much more than those two guys for Jones IMO.

There's a reason why you named him first in your post and not Strop. He's our closer not Strop. He will bring a big haul, not Strop. Not that Strop isn't valuable, he just doesn't know how to pitch ....yet. He needs some time. I think Lindstrom would be a better candidate to close right now than Strop just because of his experience. That being said, I do get your point.

Bourjos and Callaspo both have career a OPS+ under 100; how would they be an upgrade over Jones and our 3B, be it Reynolds or Betemit? I don't care how good their defense is, it wouldn't make up for their offensive inadequacies. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, no matter how bad Jones looked with RISP last night.

If one can never have enough pitching, then shouldn't we hang onto Johnson? And I love Strop, but when you have a guy that good and he's not closing, it speaks volumes, especially considering the duds they've been trotting out there for years. Pitching is valuable but if the offense can't score, then you're left looking like the Oakland A's or the Padres of 2011 (maybe this year, too). Its not like our offense is scoring a steady 5 runs a game, either, so losing Jones to Peter Bourjos wouldn't help.

On a side note, how the heck did Bourjos have a oWAR of 3.6 last year while getting on base at a .327 rate and hitting 12 home runs? I'm almost convinced its a typo on baseball reference. BTW Bourjos struck out more than Jones did last year in fewer at bats

Johnny K is right, Jones is probably looking to get paid more than he's worth. For me the more I watch him it becomes about one thing: plate discipline. I am not convinced he will ever be an elite hitter to demand the kind of money that he is going to ask for, but they may as well make an offer. He is a very good player, just not elite.

And in the end, I'd rather pay to keep Jake down the line or Brian, or Zach, Or Dylan, or Stu or whomever it is we develop because as we have seen this season, you gotta have the arms.

[mcinww0]

There's a reason why you named him first in your post and not Strop. He's our closer not Strop. He will bring a big haul, not Strop. Not that Strop isn't valuable, he just doesn't know how to pitch ....yet. He needs some time. I think Lindstrom would be a better candidate to close right now than Strop just because of his experience. That being said, I do get your point.

Yep. Lindstrom is dominant and knows how to pitch. Strop will too, eventually.

Johnny K is right, Jones is probably looking to get paid more than he's worth. For me the more I watch him it becomes about one thing: plate discipline. I am not convinced he will ever be an elite hitter to demand the kind of money that he is going to ask for, but they may as well make an offer. He is a very good player, just not elite.

And in the end, I'd rather pay to keep Jake down the line or Brian, or Zach, Or Dylan, or Stu or whomever it is we develop because as we have seen this season, you gotta have the arms.

The plate discipline is coming- He's stopped swinging at that low and away pitch that had me in fits for years and as he matures he might be a little less "emotional," as Buck says, at the plate. His K's are way down this year, but SSS. As much promise as Jake Brian Dylan and Zach have shown, Jones has been far more consistent and is somewhat of a known quantity. His ceiling is still pretty high, though, and the power is there. Most players seem to develop it a little later on and he's what, 26?

Most all free agents get more than they're worth, but that's the nature of the beast. Nearly every team who contends (except the rays, maybe brewers) overpays for free agents because they have to. Its not my money to spend but lets be honest, Angelos is no pauper. MASN gives him a nice income stream, and if the O's contended the park would be full again and MASN would be more profitable. I know this thread isn't about the Orioles' income stream but while we're on the topic of being unable to afford players I figured I'd bring it up. We had one of the highest (maybe the highest) payroll in the late 1990's, and I think Angelos would pay if we were actually contending. So its not like we're Tampa and cant afford to keep anyone around.

[Il BuonO]

Those are all very good points. And as I said, they should make him an offer. I hope he stays, I've always liked Adam.

[mcinww0]

Those are all very good points. And as I said, they should make him an offer. I hope he stays, I've always liked Adam.

Agreed. Seems like a great guy.

[Robbie D]

Just wanted to pop in and say I hate this idea. Thanks.

[waroriole]

M

I'm not really the trade guru.... I usually defer to SG on this stuff.

Maybe Bergy/Berken/Tillman, R Welty/Hoes, Zagone, and a PTBNL (c type guy)

I think it would take a lot to get him as they have control of him for a while. I think Bergy or Berken would be very good NL pitchers. Welty could be our fastest moving position prospect. Zagone looks like he has real potential but is a ways out and a 4th guy from A or AA that's not one of our major guys ...Maybe a RP type guy.

No chance they make that move. I don't think they trade him period.

[Roll Tide]

No chance they make that move. I don't think they trade him period.

So what do you think they take? They are in constant rebuild mode as it is. I think they'd take a value quality deal. I dont think it would take one of Bundy/Machado. I'd personally consider making the 1st guy Britton considering the serious hole we have at 3rd defensively.