Would you bring Gregg back on the right contract?

[OFFNY]

In fairness to Gregg, he's going to do terribly in those metrics b/c he walks a ton of guys.

I think a cut above replacement level. Not a lot, but there is a difference. If we cut him today, he'd be in somebody's pen tomorrow.

That's like saying that a quarterback would be very efficient and have a considerably higher passing, but he throws a lot of interceptions, so it skews his ratings.

[Pickles]

That's like saying that a quarterback would be very efficient and have a considerably higher passing, but he throws a lot of interceptions, so it skews his ratings.

Not really, because those WAR #s are calculated by FIP, or hypotheticals, saying how many runs a guy SHOULD let up, using their hypotheticals, as opposed to how many he actually does.

I'm not defending Gregg any more than I think as a 7th option in the BP, you could do worse.

[DrungoHazewood]

They were crap last year, no doubt. But just acting as if a random Norfolk arm is better than Gregg is foolish, because many of those arms were here last year as well, and were worse than Gregg. See Berken.

Berken wasn't even 100% healthy last year but had an xFIP lower than Gregg, FIP a bit higher. Gregg had a BABIP 50 points lower than Berken. So I'm comfortable saying that Berken is as good a pitcher as Gregg going forward.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm ok with the home run there last night, it's the walk that's unacceptable since he's prone to giving up the long ball.

Look, Gregg has had more good outings than bad this year, but he's just so unreliable in so many situations. Even with a 4-run cushion. There's no way he'll be back next year, just judging how Buck has used him this year.

But that's not where the bar is set. In 2009 Chris Ray had an ERA over 7.00, and he was unscored upon in 29 of 46 appearances. An average reliever has maybe three or four times as many good outings as bad.

[OFFNY]

I'm ok with the home run there last night, it's the walk that's unacceptable since he's prone to giving up the long ball.

Look, Gregg has had more good outings than bad this year, but he's just so unreliable in so many situations. Even with a 4-run cushion. There's no way he'll be back next year, just judging how Buck has used him this year.

At first glance and upon face value that looks good, but considering all of the circumstances surrounding the majority of Gregg's outings this season, that's not necessarily saying much at all.

For the most of this season, Buck has been using Gregg with ultra-kid gloves. He has had as much as a week in between outings at times, and a good number of his outings were either in flat-out garbage time, or borderline garbage time. Taking those factors into consideration, Gregg's having had more good outings than bad this season isn't very impressive at all.

Now ....... while one might argue that it's not fair and that it's not Gregg's fault that he has been used this infrequently and not in pressure situations, I would argue that it is fair. Gregg pitched himself into that particular role, so the fact that he hasn't been getting a chance to really prove himself lately is his own fault.

.

[DallasOsFan]

I'd sign him in a heartbeat ... as long as the letterhead at the top of the contract said "SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS BASEBALL CLUB" ... or maybe "NEW YORK YANKEES."

[Pickles]

Berken wasn't even 100% healthy last year but had an xFIP lower than Gregg, FIP a bit higher. Gregg had a BABIP 50 points lower than Berken. So I'm comfortable saying that Berken is as good a pitcher as Gregg going forward.

I can't say you're wrong.

[wompfump]

Gregg pitches in virtually meaningless situations as is. If he didn't, Showalter wouldn't have taken him out in the 9th. There are far better, and even cheaper options. I am interested in seeing what Steve Johnson can do.

[Orioles0615]

Unless he is paying us, in that case I would still say no.

[Pickles]

I thought I'd do a little research to see just how "replacement level" Gregg's performance has been this year. I think the results might be illuminating.

Every team in the AL, save Texas and NY (if you don't Garcia as a reliever), has AT LEAST 1, in most cases 2-3 or more, relief pitchers with at least 10 innings pitched (and in almost all those case actually more innings pitched than Gregg) and a worse ERA+ than Gregg.

I think the term replacement level is being thrown around a little liberally here.

[HokieOs]

I thought I'd do a little research to see just how "replacement level" Gregg's performance has been this year. I think the results might be illuminating.

Every team in the AL, save Texas and NY (if you don't Garcia as a reliever), has AT LEAST 1, in most cases 2-3 or more, relief pitchers with at least 10 innings pitched (and in almost all those case actually more innings pitched than Gregg) and a worse ERA+ than Gregg.

I think the term replacement level is being thrown around a little liberally here.

Just curious as I actually don't know the answer, but how many guys with similar performance in 2011 were actually signed to a new contract with the same team in 2012?

Other teams having relievers that are just as bad or worse isn't a reason to keep him around. Because other teams have worse starting Third Basemen than Mark Reynolds doesn't mean that we don't do what we can to make ourselves better at that position. Bringing Gregg back in 2013 does nothing to make this club better next year. Bringing in someone else might not improve anything, but it could.... and it really can't be much worse... because if he is much worse, he's gone and we bring in another guy. Relievers at or around Gregg's level are interchangable.

[Pickles]

Just curious as I actually don't know the answer, but how many guys with similar performance in 2011 were actually signed to a new contract with the same team in 2012?

Other teams having relievers that are just as bad or worse isn't a reason to keep him around. Because other teams have worse starting Third Basemen than Mark Reynolds doesn't mean that we don't do what we can to make ourselves better at that position. Bringing Gregg back in 2013 does nothing to make this club better next year. Bringing in someone else might not improve anything, but it could.... and it really can't be much worse... because if he is much worse, he's gone and we bring in another guy. Relievers at or around Gregg's level are interchangable.

Well, I want to be clear that I'm not advocating resigning Gregg. I'm simply commenting on his performance this year. Which has been a little unfairly maligned here imo. If he's replacement level, then just about every team in the league is doing a poor job identifying replacement talent.

[OFFNY]

I thought I'd do a little research to see just how "replacement level" Gregg's performance has been this year. I think the results might be illuminating.

Every team in the AL, save Texas and NY (if you don't Garcia as a reliever), has AT LEAST 1, in most cases 2-3 or more, relief pitchers with at least 10 innings pitched (and in almost all those case actually more innings pitched than Gregg) and a worse ERA+ than Gregg.

I think the term replacement level is being thrown around a little liberally here.

So ........ not including 2 of the best teams in the league (Texas and the Yankees), you scraped the bottom of the barrel from the remaining 11 teams besides the Orioles, conveniently only used ERA as a barometer, and you've come to the conclusion that Kevin Gregg is not necessarily as God-awful as he appears to be, and a lot of us on here are just a bunch of over zealous bullies that pick on Kevin Gregg in an unwarranted manner.

Super.

[Pickles]

So ........ not including 2 of the best teams in the league (Texas and the Yankees), you scraped the bottom of the barrel from the remaining 11 teams besides the Orioles, conveniently only used ERA as a barometer, and you've come to the conclusion that Kevin Gregg is not necessarily as God-awful as he appears to be, and a lot of us on here are just a bunch of over zealous bullies that pick on Kevin Gregg in an unwarranted manner.

Super.

Did I use ERA?

Hey you said it. I didn't.

[OFFNY]

Gregg has shown that he can be a decent enough pitcher if used in low-leverage situations. He's easily forgetable compared to the rest of the pen, where 4 members have ERA+ over 200 (Johnson, Strop, O'Day, Ayala), but he's actually been pretty reliable.

His stats:

IP: 17.1

ERA: 3.63

ERA+: 114

K/9: 7.3

BB/9: 3.6

If he were willing to come back on a smaller contract with the understanding that he's still not the CL or the SU, would you take him? If so, what would be the highest value you'd go?

Araqnid, my apologies on my last comment. For the record, everyone here can testify that I have had more than my share of baaaaaaaad threads.