The Starting Pitching has to get better.

[oriole]

I am against trading anything of worth for a rental due to the pressure from the fanbase to fix a rotation an injury away from shambles. Let it be. By all means trade minor pieces and acquire depth but am I really seeing trade proposals involving Machado, our future (hopefully) allstar caliber SS?

This team is riding the fumes of players having career years, an insanely solid BP, and some big home runs when a big home run is needed. I'm not trying to get all negative nellie but this is not a recipe for sustained success. If a pitcher is to be acquired, and I agree that one should be, it should absolutely not be a blockbuster deal or even a Garza or Dempster deal. Depth signings like Moyer and Piniero are good, and while they won't push us over the top they can help stop the bleeding in terms of Arrietas inconsistency and Hunters general inability to win. If this team wins it will be because of the performance of the players that are here and all this crazy trade talk is just people getting caught up in the moment thinking Dempster is the key to a solid rotation. I would hate to see what would have to be traded to acquire him with all the demand for SP right now.

[Flash- bd]

IF we wait till the ASB it may well be too late. We need to be 10 G's over by then to have a shot. With this current bunch of SP's that isn't too likely IMO.

I'd rather let Arrieta and Matusz take their bumps and bruises and develop. Both are at that point in their career where they are kind of delicately balanced; they need to start producing results but they are still very clearly in the development process. Either way, our organization is going to sink or swim with Matusz, Britton, and Arrieta; if we don't get at least one #3 and one #4-5 out of those three then we are going to struggle long term. I don't see how going outside the organization solves anything (unless it's for a bargain basement kind of buy--I suggested someone like Bedard in another thread, who we could probably get for a B/C-level prospect later in the year if Pittsburgh is out of contention and wants to shed his remaining salary), as trading for someone will just deprive Matusz and Arrieta (and potentially Britton) of the time they need to make good on their potential while depriving us of more young talent besides (ie, the cost for the trade).

We've exhausted the topic of Arrieta so I won't go there, but I think it's pretty clear with Matusz the stuff is there, but he just needs to put it together. He was struggling mightily with command last night--as is already well documented, esp. re: his FB--and a lot of that seemed to me to be mechanical/mental, his mechanics were a mess and he just seemed to be overly-amped up out there and simply trying too hard. I think we have to assume these kind of mental issues will smooth themselves out as the year goes along, and even if we don't want to make that assumption, I think we have to, more importantly, let it play out either way. Matusz and Arrieta are guys with definite potential value, though at the moment they have very little--so, logically, what do we do? Give them an opportunity to rehab that value (in which case we can do what we likewith them, trade them or reap the benefits) or trade them/otherwise limit their development for little-no return?

Seems a no-brainer to me. I think people here are getting over-anxious about the pennant race; I'd still put the chances of us making the playoffs this year at a pretty low percentage, and there's a very good chance we make a trade for a SP and still don't make it (as Wildcard points out, we could trade for a guy like Colon only for him to tail off like he did last year--you run a lot of risk when you trade for a guy specifically for the purpose of performing in a very small sample). We're much better served with going with what we've got--and being opportunistic through waivers and minor moves as Duquette has been, and will, I'm sure, continue to be--and hoping that they come good.

EDIT: I see oriole beat me to it. Nice post.

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

IF we wait till the ASB it may well be too late. We need to be 10 G's over by then to have a shot. With this current bunch of SP's that isn't too likely IMO.

I'm not so sure. I certainly think we can remain 10 games above with the current squad.

As frustrated as I can get with Matusz, he has been better of late and I think he will do OK.

That gives us 3 of 5 decent starters, which should be enough to keep us at .500 until the break IMO.

[GoldGlove21]

What I like about adding Colon is that it can probably be done for a Bergesen and a mid-tier prospect. None of the big three will have to be added in a trade. Garza would likely require Schoop+>

Dempster is interesting because of his age and time remaining on his contract, but I think a team looking for that extra arm may give up an A-level prospect for that rental, and I'm not sure I want a part of that.

I think that Colon would have to be one of my first picks. I think we could land him for Tillman and a lower level prospect. I do think that I would give up a lot for Garza if I could extend him. I would give up Schoop, Tillman, Avery and another lower level guy for Garza. I think that team like the Yankees would give up much more though.

[GoldGlove21]

I'm not so sure. I certainly think we can remain 10 games above with the current squad.

As frustrated as I can get with Matusz, he has been better of late and I think he will do OK.

That gives us 3 of 5 decent starters, which should be enough to keep us at .500 until the break IMO.

10 games abve .500 may not be enough. I think that we need to be 12-15 games over.

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

10 games abve .500 may not be enough. I think that we need to be 12-15 games over.

I was referring to staying 10 above until the all star break. Agreed that by the end of the year we need to be around 88 wins.

[GoldGlove21]

I am against trading anything of worth for a rental due to the pressure from the fanbase to fix a rotation an injury away from shambles. Let it be. By all means trade minor pieces and acquire depth but am I really seeing trade proposals involving Machado, our future (hopefully) allstar caliber SS?

This team is riding the fumes of players having career years, an insanely solid BP, and some big home runs when a big home run is needed. I'm not trying to get all negative nellie but this is not a recipe for sustained success. If a pitcher is to be acquired, and I agree that one should be, it should absolutely not be a blockbuster deal or even a Garza or Dempster deal. Depth signings like Moyer and Piniero are good, and while they won't push us over the top they can help stop the bleeding in terms of Arrietas inconsistency and Hunters general inability to win. If this team wins it will be because of the performance of the players that are here and all this crazy trade talk is just people getting caught up in the moment thinking Dempster is the key to a solid rotation. I would hate to see what would have to be traded to acquire him with all the demand for SP right now.

What players are we talking about in terms of having career years? Jones and Wieters are good. Reimold is really good when he is not injured. We got Brian Roberts back. Chris Davis was given a chance to pay everyday for maybe the second time in his career. JJ Hardy is good and is likely to be good every year that he is healthy. Reynolds, Betemit, Markakis, Andino were not exactly raking. Then there is the underperforming of Matusz, Arrieta and Hunter. Hammel switched leagues and is doing well. Chen looks like a very good starting pitcher. The pen is the one area where ou could argue that the guys are playing above their ability, but these guys have some real talent.

I would be willing to argue that we would be much better if the #3, #4 and #5 were just league average. I am talking 17+ games over .500 if the starter pitching was better and 20+ games if Reimold, Lindstrom, Markakis and Roberts played the entire year healthy. The Orioles need to address some holes now, because this team has the base to compete now.

[wildcard]

I think Miguel Gonzalez is part of the answer to the rotation. Why would I think that about a 28 year old minor leaguer? I think he was on his way to the majors with the Angels in 2007 when he was derailed by a knee injury and TJ surgery. He has finally regained his strength and his effectiveness. He had control of his fastball when he was with the O's recently. And most importantly he impressed Buck who is going to give him a chance if he shows he deserves it in the Norfolk rotation. So far so good. One more 6 inning outing and I think there is a chance he gets called up to the O's rotation.

I don't think Moyer will be any better then what the O's have all ready, but I can see him being called up for a while.

I don't want to see Machado, Bundy or Schoop traded for a short term fix. But I do think it is important for DD to improve the O's rotation while they are in contention. I don't know how at this point but it is important to the future of the franchise to break through now if at all possible without damaging the future. DD been good with acquiring effective mid tier players. That is what the O's need. Not a blockbuster trade.

[jtschrei]

I am against trading anything of worth for a rental due to the pressure from the fanbase to fix a rotation an injury away from shambles. Let it be. By all means trade minor pieces and acquire depth but am I really seeing trade proposals involving Machado, our future (hopefully) allstar caliber SS?

This team is riding the fumes of players having career years, an insanely solid BP, and some big home runs when a big home run is needed. I'm not trying to get all negative nellie but this is not a recipe for sustained success. If a pitcher is to be acquired, and I agree that one should be, it should absolutely not be a blockbuster deal or even a Garza or Dempster deal. Depth signings like Moyer and Piniero are good, and while they won't push us over the top they can help stop the bleeding in terms of Arrietas inconsistency and Hunters general inability to win. If this team wins it will be because of the performance of the players that are here and all this crazy trade talk is just people getting caught up in the moment thinking Dempster is the key to a solid rotation. I would hate to see what would have to be traded to acquire him with all the demand for SP right now.

The time to win is NOW. You're not going to catch the Red Sox in a down year very often. The playoffs are there for the taking.... THIS YEAR. I know it sounds crazy. I know we all had our expectations so low at the beginning of the year. You just never know when you're going to have a shot and you have to live for the moment. You might say I'm being short-sighted. I just don't ever think you can predict the future. We're in contention RIGHT NOW and so we need to make a move to address our most obvious weakness.

[Il BuonO]

Ideally, Matusz and Arrieta step up and we trade for someone like Colon to replace Hunter. That's a make-shift, 4.40-ish ERA that could keep us in contention. If Matusz and Arrieta can't do it, then I think we need to write this off as a year in which we didn't have the horses to contend.

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Tillman in any of this. Most on here point to Britton within the org, but Tillman pitched in a downpour last time out and I am certain at this point he at least has better stuff than Hunter.

I still think we have to go outside to take the place of either Matusz or Arrieta but I think it would be a waste not to at least give Tillman a shot.

Let the bashing begin....

[jabba72]

Supposedly the Yanks and Dodgers are eying Garza. Im not sure what other arm of that caliber is out there to trade. I dont think the O's should get into a bidding war with those teams.

[jabba72]

The time to win is NOW. You're not going to catch the Red Sox in a down year very often. The playoffs are there for the taking.... THIS YEAR. I know it sounds crazy. I know we all had our expectations so low at the beginning of the year. You just never know when you're going to have a shot and you have to live for the moment. You might say I'm being short-sighted. I just don't ever think you can predict the future. We're in contention RIGHT NOW and so we need to make a move to address our most obvious weakness.

I dont feel the rotation is nearly deep enough to mortgage the future by trading for Garza.

[El Gordo]

I'm not so sure. I certainly think we can remain 10 games above with the current squad.

As frustrated as I can get with Matusz, he has been better of late and I think he will do OK.

That gives us 3 of 5 decent starters, which should be enough to keep us at .500 until the break IMO.

I doubt it. I make it more like 2 1/2 QS out of every 5. If we added another SP we could have more like 3 1/2. We can keep Matusz and Arrieta in the rotation, and their inconsistency won't put us out of the race early. Hopefully as the season progresses at least one of them will step up. If we stay as we are I seriously doubt we can maintain a .500 pace to the ASB. We'll be lucky to still be above .500 IMO.

[tilgaham]

What's the package for a Garza or Peavy look like?

Is a Matusz/Schoop/Avery deal a good starting point for Garza? Because I'd make that deal and not feel bad about it.

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

What's the package for a Garza or Peavy look like?

Is a Matusz/Schoop/Avery deal a good starting point for Garza? Because I'd make that deal and not feel bad about it.

For me, Matusz is a guy I'm counting on in the second half. If you take him away and add a starter, I don't think its as effective for us.