Nationals taking advantage of their MASN money

[Brendan25]

But that is not because of the money they've spent. That is because of guys like Harper, Strasburg and the rest of their young pitching.

Exactly!

So they are spending to supplement and strengthen a relatively cheap, homegrown core?

Yes they are? Not sure where you're going?

[SilentJames]

So they are spending to supplement and strengthen a relatively cheap, homegrown core?

That may be, but their payroll is now 120 million bucks because of supplemental players. Guys like Werth, Soriano, and LaRoche. You mean to tell me that they needed to give Werth that money? Soriano as well? Please, they are spending stupidly. And their spending has precious little to do with their success, in fact their spending might hinder their success when it comes time to lock up some of their young talent long-term.

[Whammer]

Sorry, friend, they won't "crash and burn" under Davey.

Really?? When a team gives up a 6-run lead, at home, in the deciding game of a playoff series, what do you call it? I think "crash-and-burn" is fairly accurate.

[Stotle]

That may be, but their payroll is now 120 million bucks because of supplemental players. Guys like Werth, Soriano, and LaRoche. You mean to tell me that they needed to give Werth that money? Soriano as well? Please, they are spending stupidly. And their spending has precious little to do with their success, in fact their spending might hinder their success when it comes time to lock up some of their youngish find talent long-term.

Someone knowledgable about such things would point you to the increased value in a win the closer you get to playoff level, as well as the increased difficulty in finding those wins.

[MurphDogg]

Really?? When a team gives up a 6-run lead, at home, in the deciding game of a playoff series, what do you call it? I think "crash-and-burn" is fairly accurate.

I would call it one rough game. The Nats seem to have built themselves a pretty good team (it helps to repeatedly have #1 picks and the wealthiest owner in baseball). I enjoy going to Nats games a few times a year and don't understand why people feel the need to antagonize them.

[SilentJames]

I want them to be good. Go for it. But at the same time their spending habits are not really something the orioles should be emulating so the purpose of the thread is moot to me.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[TonySoprano]

Really?? When a team gives up a 6-run lead, at home, in the deciding game of a playoff series, what do you call it? I think "crash-and-burn" is fairly accurate.

I tend to look at the bigger picture, as in 98 wins, best in all of MLB.

[Brendan25]

But that is not because of the money they've spent. That is because of guys like Harper, Strasburg and the rest of their young pitching.

Someone knowledgable about such things would point you to the increased value in a win the closer you get to playoff level, as well as the increased difficulty in finding those wins.

Would the Nats of made the playoffs without Werth this year?

[Stotle]

Would the Nats of made the playoffs without Werth this year?

Based on what determinant?

[DrinkinWithFermi]

The only justification for the inactivity of the O's is that Angelos doesn't want to open up his check book.

I've come to accept that, but all of these "Bad free agent class" arguments are just misguided. Clearly there are players out there that could improve the team, we just didn't pay for them.

Basically, I'm okay with ending the Angelos-is-cheap talk, but let's also end the justifications for his lack of spending, too. He doesn't want to pay and we can't make him.

If the Orioles re-sign Saunders, the payroll will be around $95 million. That's a 20-25% increase, mostly due to arbitration, from OD 2012, which was around $80 million. Add Morse, and we will come close to $100 million(depending on what the players given up are making). If Angelos is so cheap, why did we pay Casilla $2 million when we already have Roberts and Flaherty? Why did we pay McLouth $2.5 million when we already have Robinson and Reimold? Why did we pay Reimold $1 million when we already have McLouth and Robinson? Angelos was fine with a $15-20 million dollar increase. I'm reasonably sure if DD really wanted a free agent and felt that we actually NEEDED him, he could've gone to PA and gotten the green light. But there weren't many FAs on the market that were dramatic improvements over what we currently have, and most of them would've cost a first round pick.

The Orioles won 93 games last year, and went into the offseason with very few obvious holes to fill- another OF and SP, maybe a RH 1B/DH type- and if they sign Saunders, all of those needs will be filled. Would a star FA have been nice? Would it have been exciting? Yeah, probably. But it wasn't necessary.

Ugh. I can't wait for this offseason to be over.

[PaulFolk]

Really?? When a team gives up a 6-run lead, at home, in the deciding game of a playoff series, what do you call it? I think "crash-and-burn" is fairly accurate.

That's not the definition of "crash and burn" that most people would use. To me, "crash and burn" refers to a team where the whole season just goes complete awry despite high expectations-- see the 2012 Red Sox.

Having the best record in baseball over a 162-game season and then suffering a heartbreaking loss in a playoff game is not a "crash and burn" situation. The Nationals are still an excellent team.

[Brendan25]

Based on what determinant?

Based on your opinion.

[Stotle]

Based on your opinion.

I have no idea. How could I possibly know? I'd assume his production could be replicated, but that has nothing to do with the point I was making in my post regarding the cost and import of increasing wins. We can go down this road if you'd like, but fair warning...if you are trying to argue that Werth was not necessary for the Nats to make the playoffs last year and, therefor, the Nats threw away money in signing him, that argument is ill formed, overly simplistic and borderline sack-of-rocks stupid.

[Brendan25]

I have no idea. How could I possibly know? I'd assume his production could be replicated, but that has nothing to do with the point I was making in my post regarding the cost and import of increasing wins. We can go down this road if you'd like, but fair warning...if you are trying to argue that Werth was not necessary for the Nats to make the playoffs last year and, therefor, the Nats threw away money in signing him, that argument is ill formed, overly simplistic and borderline sack-of-rocks stupid.

I'm not saying that they wasted money on him. My point is on last years roster, the only significant free agent signing that they had was LaRoche and Werth. LaRoche did not cost much, and the Nats would have made the playoffs without Werth. So they saw fairly easily last year that their CORE was good enough to win for a long time. So this offseason they went out and spent big. Unless you think that the Orioles core is just as good and ready to win as the Nats, then comparing the two and what they spend in free agency is pointless.

[Stotle]

I'm not saying that they wasted money on him. My point is on last years roster, the only significant free agent signing that they had was LaRoche and Werth. LaRoche did not cost much, and the Nats would have made the playoffs without Werth. So they saw fairly easily last year that their CORE was good enough to win for a long time. So this offseason they went out and spent big. Unless you think that the Orioles core is just as good and ready to win as the Nats, then comparing the two and what they spend in free agency is pointless.

Edwin Jackson was an eight figure signing, too. Jackson left and the Nats signed Haren for comparable money on a short team deal. They re-signed LaRoche. Is the Soriano deal ($7MM this year) that crazy? Probably an overpay, but one that playoffs teams routinely make because they understand the principles I mentioned re: cost/scarcity of tier 1 wins.

I guess I don't see your overall point regarding the O's. Are you simultaneously arguing 1) the Orioles core is good enough to get to the playoffs,and 2) the Orioles core is not good enough to supplement with significant free agent spending? That doesn't work for me.