TT: The Orioles projected payroll is 4th in the AL East

[Jon]

Want to see the future? Learn from the past. It doesn't take a doctorate in Orioles history, or even a rehashing of all of the great quotes Tony Soprano has presented over the years to be able to realize that Peter Angelos does not and will not spend very often or very much in free agency. Angelos has spoken directly about his disdain for the modern economics of baseball and the lack of spending in free agency, and nothing has changed since those quotes years back, that indicates he's changed his mind.

Yet despite little evidence to the contrary, you have posters and fans far more knowledgeable than I not only still giving Angelos the benefit of the doubt in this area, but actually insisting that if and when the time is right, things will change! You'll see! If Prince or T-Bag were FA's this year, we'd be in it to win it! The fact is, the facts just don't back this up, at all. And what about free agent starting pitching? Forget about it. The O's have literally never spent big on a free agent pitcher.

As others have pointed out, this teams competitive future lies squarely in drafting and development. This, not payroll, nor free agent spending, will decide this team's fate. We need Bundy, Machado and to a lesser extent, Gausman to "hit" not "miss" as so many other prospects of the O's over the years have, to have any shot at sustained near term or long term contention. The pipe dream of augmenting the "core" with high-end free agent talent is very unlikely as long as Angelos owns this team. I want so badly to be wrong on this, but I just don't share the optimism of some on here when the facts tells us otherwise.

[Dipper9]

Sure didn't take long for people to forget 2012, now did it?

Yeah, it may have been a fluke. Or, it may have been pitching and defense finally returning to Baltimore. Maybe these young guys have finally put it together and we could be looking at a group of really good pitchers on our hands.

But lets return to form and wish we had traded our good talent for Billy Butler. Or even better, spend $150 million on a player where the chance that he could fall off the wagon is just as good as the chance that our pitchers return to 2011 form.

You guys can continue this discussion, and I know I'm in the minority with my view on this, so no hard feelings, but I choose to grow off of 2012, hope that it wasn't a fluke, and stay positive for a change.

[DrungoHazewood]

1. Fans aren't conditioned to believe Angelos can only afford a 90-100M payroll. Almost everyone is skeptical at the least.

2. Realistic fans know they can't force him to spend 150M and that a 90-100M payroll is what we are going to have

3. No one really knows what he can afford but again, what's the difference if he only wants to spend 90-100M?

4. Last years team was the most fun most of us have had in a long time.

5. That doesn't mean they can repeat it, but what other choice do we have but to hope so?

Since we have more-or-less zero influence in the situation we'll continue to do what we always have: accept that the Orioles (i.e. Peter Angelos) are what they are, trust or hope that Duquette, Buck, Peterson, etc are doing their best to overcome that, and hope that one day (hey, that could be today...) something changes and they'll act like a normal franchise and reinvest a bit of their revenues in a solid player or two to push them forward.

2012 was incredible. So was 1989. After '89 I always said I'd never see the likes of that season again. But lightning struck twice. I'm not going to count on it striking three times, and certainly not two years in a row. I'll hope, but also know that the hope is a bit of a stretch.

[Tony-OH]

Since we have more-or-less zero influence in the situation we'll continue to do what we always have: accept that the Orioles (i.e. Peter Angelos) are what they are, trust or hope that Duquette, Buck, Peterson, etc are doing their best to overcome that, and hope that one day (hey, that could be today...) something changes and they'll act like a normal franchise and reinvest a bit of their revenues in a solid player or two to push them forward.

2012 was incredible. So was 1989. After '89 I always said I'd never see the likes of that season again. But lightning struck twice. I'm not going to count on it striking three times, and certainly not two years in a row. I'll hope, but also know that the hope is a bit of a stretch.

Absolutely. I'm not negative about the Orioles at all, in fact, I think they have a nice core of young players to build from, I like what Duquette has done under his constraints, and I think we have a great manager in Buck Showalter. Saying that, I have little to no faith that this team will ever augment that core with an impact free agent because of Angelos' disdain for modern baseball economics. That, along with his personal trait of doing things his way will mean the Orioles will never be a major player in free agency for premium talent. Now some people see that as a plus and don't want to be involved with those guys, and I understand where they are coming from. I believe there is room for both. I completely agre that the majority of our team needs to be developed but I also believe when a team is an impact bat away from having a very nice lineup and there is an impact bat available, they should be players for that bat. Every premium free agent has risk attached to them. However, those teams that are adverse to risk will tend to need to catch lightning in a bottle more often than not.

Personally, I see this team as a 85 win team +/- 4 games. That won't be good enough for the playoffs but it should be good enough to have a fun year as a fan.

[TonySoprano]

I know for a fact this team has had antiquated equipment at their minor league facilities in comparison to other organizations for years. Requests have been made and denied over the years for things such as curve ball machines. Perhaps that will be or has been addressed with some of the new blood coming in and with Duquette's emphasis on minor league development.

Until MLB went to the new cool base material for the jerseys a couple years ago, rather than buying uniforms for some of the minors, the Orioles would send their jerseys to their lettering company to have the letters stripped and re-lettered for the minor league teams. The new thinner material would rip and tear if they did that now. I can't think of a single valid reason not to give the minors the equipment they need.

[MurphDogg]

Until MLB went to the new cool base material for the jerseys a couple years ago, rather than buying uniforms for some of the minors, the Orioles would send their jerseys to their lettering company to have the letters stripped and re-lettered for the minor league teams.

Really? I don't even see how that would save money. Fans would gladly buy game worn jerseys at a premium with just the name plates removed for the unknown players and coaches.

Hell, I nearly spent $100 last month on a Rob Murphy game worn Astros jersey simply because we share a last name, and I'm not an Astros fan.

[weams]

Want to see the future? Learn from the past. It doesn't take a doctorate in Orioles history, or even a rehashing of all of the great quotes Tony Soprano has presented over the years to be able to realize that Peter Angelos does not and will not spend very often or very much in free agency. Angelos has spoken directly about his disdain for the modern economics of baseball and the lack of spending in free agency, and nothing has changed since those quotes years back, that indicates he's changed his mind.

Yet despite little evidence to the contrary, you have posters and fans far more knowledgeable than I not only still giving Angelos the benefit of the doubt in this area, but actually insisting that if and when the time is right, things will change! You'll see! If Prince or T-Bag were FA's this year, we'd be in it to win it! The fact is, the facts just don't back this up, at all. And what about free agent starting pitching? Forget about it. The O's have literally never spent big on a free agent pitcher.

As others have pointed out, this teams competitive future lies squarely in drafting and development. This, not payroll, nor free agent spending, will decide this team's fate. We need Bundy, Machado and to a lesser extent, Gausman to "hit" not "miss" as so many other prospects of the O's over the years have, to have any shot at sustained near term or long term contention. The pipe dream of augmenting the "core" with high-end free agent talent is very unlikely as long as Angelos owns this team. I want so badly to be wrong on this, but I just don't share the optimism of some on here when the facts tells us otherwise.

Tony Soprano is a good archivist.