Could this be what we are asking the Mariners for?

[Hank Scorpio]

M's fan here - i mod the scout.com page for the M's.

The M's will never give up that much for Bedard - and no - throwing in payton doesn't even it all out, lol. Jones/Triunfel/Tillman/Chen for Bedard? That package is better than anything the Twins are looking at for Santana. Conflicting reports say we were never in it for Santana while others say we scoffed when we saw what they wanted saying we weren't going to gut our farm system for one pitcher. We won't even do a Jones/Clement/Tillman/Chen for Bedard. You could probably get 2 pretty good prospects and then another smaller one but that's it. From what I have heard our best offer may be Jones/Tillman/Sherrill. I think you guys should take that and be preffy f'ing happy to be honest. I wouldn't part with much more than that and I doubt Bavasi will either.

I know AM is waiting to be overwhelmed in a deal for Bedard but he won't get it from us which is why I think no deal has gone down yet. You won't get our top 4 prospects in a deal for Bedard and not even 4 good prospects so the demands have to come down or you can keep him.

You don't know what we're offering in addition to Bedard......

But, generally I agree with what you're saying. I think Jones, Tillman, Sherrill and Chen for Bedard, Beato and Payton isn't a horrible deal.

[Mackus]

Does the definition of REBUILDING = Only getting prospects(however good they may be) in return for a veteran successful MLB player(s)?

My confusion is why we(the hangout) don't seem to want any ML players in return for Bedard, only prospects? When The Rangers traded Tex to Atlanta, Saltalamachia was the primary piece of the trade from the Braves end and he had proven(how ever small the sample) that he could play at the MLB level. Is it because they weren't rebuliding that they didn't just go for 3-4 top prospects for Tex?

The primary pieces need to be 0-2 service time guys.

[Pre-Highlanders]

You don't know what we're offering in addition to Bedard......

But, generally I agree with what you're saying. I think Jones, Tillman, Sherrill and Chen for Bedard, Beato and Payton isn't a horrible deal.

Why give up Beato to get Tillman? Why not just let each keep it's own low high ceiling high risk pitcher, and make the deal for the other pieces?

[Mackus]

Why give up Beato to get Tillman? Why not just let each keep it's own low high ceiling high risk pitcher, and make the deal for the other pieces?

Because Tillman is a much better prospect than Beato.

[wildcard]

I'm disputing that this trade isn't enough for Bedard. It certainly is.

And I'll also dispute any plan that has us keeping Bedard and Roberts as being a smart plan. Its utterly hopeless to rebuild and keep these guys.

You just posted in another thread about the power that the O's will have in 2009 with Markakis, Wieters, Reimold, and Scott. With the O's making a big push for Tex or Dunn. With this statement you are making the same argument that I have been making.

Now it is only logical that if that is true then an ace pitcher in Bedard is better to have then Jones. If you really believe what you wrote it makes no sense to trade for players that can't help until 2011-12 when the team can be well on it way in 2009.

If the O's do what you posted then Bedard and Roberts have a excellent chance of signing next off season when they see the club turning around.

[mapierce]

From what I have heard our best offer may be Jones/Tillman/Sherrill. I think you guys should take that and be preffy f'ing happy to be honest.

That's a pretty weak offer for Bedard. The Red's could easily top that. If you replace Sherrill with Triunfel or Chen and another 4th prospect it'd be doable. If you want a top notch pitcher you will have to give up good talent to get him.

[Mackus]

You just posted in another thread about the power that the O's will have in 2009 with Markakis, Wieters, Reimold, and Scott. With the O's making a big push for Tex or Dunn. With this statement you are making the same argument that I have been making.

Now it is only logical that if that is true then an ace pitcher in Bedard is better to have then Jones. If you really believe what you wrote it makes no sense to trade for players that can't help until 2011-12 when the team can be well on it way in 2009.

If the O's do what you posted then Bedard and Roberts have a excellent chance of signing next off season when they see the club turning around.

I believe there is a 0% chance that Bedard signs with the Orioles beyond 2009. No chance of that happening, IMO. So I will completely disagree any plan that even hints at a remote possibility of him resigning.

Roberts is slightly more likely, but still the odds are overwhelmingly against it.

You trade for players who won't realisitically help until 2010+ because they are much better value than guys who could help immediately, or, because thats the best you can get. I'd rather have Clement than either Triunfel or Tillman, and perhaps over both, but its unlikely we can get him and Jones.

I wouldn't trade Bedard only for guys in the low minors, and getting Jones, who is ready right now, satisfies that.

I'm not making the statement that we compete in 2009 either. I think there is a very outside chance that we could, but its very unlikely. We'd be signing Tex (don't want to commit the money Dunn would cost for what he brings) with the understanding that 2009 is still mostly a rebuilding year and we probably won't be ready for true contention until 2010.

[Mackus]

That's a pretty weak offer for Bedard. The Red's could easily top that. If you replace Sherrill with Triunfel or Chen and another 4th prospect it'd be doable. If you want a top notch pitcher you will have to give up good talent to get him.

Triunfel > Sherill > Chen

I wouldn't replace Sherill with Chen. Chen helps our rebuilding plan more than Sherill does, but I'm very confidant that we could turn around and deal Sherill for a piece that is much better than Chen.

[Hank Scorpio]

Because Tillman is a much better prospect than Beato.

That and they'd be taking back Payton, who sucks.

[wildcard]

I believe there is a 0% chance that Bedard signs with the Orioles beyond 2009. No chance of that happening, IMO.

You have every right to draw that conclusion if you like, but it is based on nothing but emotion as far as I know. I have not seen anything that say that Bedard will not sign. I know he will not sign now because the O's have giving him no reason to sign. However, if McPhail does some building, then Bedard will have a reason to sign with O's.

[Mackus]

You have every right to draw that conclusion if you like, but it is based on nothing but emotion as far as I know. I have not seen anything that say that Bedard will not sign. I know he will not sign now because the O's have giving him no reason to sign. However, if McPhail does some building, then Bedard will have a reason to sign with O's.

There haven't been public reports that Bedard has said he wouldn't resign, that is true. But I am basing it on far more than emotion. Peace has said that Bedard won't resign, and his source is...drumroll please...Bedard's agent. Also, its basic common sense. We the fans may not know what Bedard's intentions are as a fact, but it is an absolute lock that MacPhail has explored the situation with Bedard and his agent. MacPhail knows, without any doubt, what the liklihood of Bedard extending is. If there was a decent chance, don't you think he'd be at the very least splitting some of his time towards an extension rather than just trading him?

[Sports Guy]

You have every right to draw that conclusion if you like, but it is based on nothing but emotion as far as I know. I have not seen anything that say that Bedard will not sign. I know he will not sign now because the O's have giving him no reason to sign. However, if McPhail does some building, then Bedard will have a reason to sign with O's.

Ok, so say you keep him and he changes his mind.

It is next offseason and he says he will re-sign for a market value contract...Something in the 5-6 year for 18-20 million a year.

Are you prepared to pay him 18-20 million a year into his mid 30s?

[Mackus]

It's 2008. To expect Wieters and Reimold to both be above average ML players in 2009 is very optimistic. Wieters likely will be just getting his feet wet at the time. Reimold has other questions, although I like him. The fact is that we don't have enough young guys coming up. We need more. A lot more.

Right, if you are assuming 2 young guys are going to fill 2 spots, you're likely to be disappointed. If you are assuming 8 young guys are going to be able to fill 4 spots, you're less likely to be disappointed.

We need a ton more positional prospects. We have Markakis and Scott at the corners. Other than that, we've got holes that need to be filled everywhere, so 6 positions plus DH. We've got Moore, Reimold, Wieters, Costanzo, Rowell and Snyder in the sytem right now (in order of who I think is closest to the majors). We need 4-5 more guys just to feel comfortable that we can get most of the positions covered adequately. I think adding some combination of 3-5 of Jones, Clement, Votto, Stubbs, Lillibridge, Triunfel, Chen, Cedeno, and Patterson and anyone else we could get in return for shipping out Bedard, Roberts, Hernandez, Walker, Bradford, and whoever else would go a long ways towards making us pretty confidant that we'll have most (though likely not all) of the holes covered through our own system.

[NCRaven]

Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times blogged that the Mariners have signed Rhodes to a minor league deal. He believes that this is to provide them with another left handed reliever so that they can move Sherrill in a Bedard trade. He then went on to say he was tired of talking about Bedard and went on to other things. On that, I think he speaks for all of us!

A minor transaction, but it could have an impact on moving the trade along.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/index.html

[glenn__davis]

That's.....interesting.