Sun: Cubs Offer Ceden, Gallagher, Veal and maybe a 4th player - For Roberts

[Mike B]

Fantasy baseball? LOL! If weighing both offense and defense is "fantasy baseball," then what do you call your approach of ignoring offense altogether?

Still waiting for an answer to my question from post #100.

I take it from your "thank goodness" comment that you'd happily to forego 50 runs of offense for 20 runs saved on defense.

What you seem oblivious to is that you'll lose more games that way.

I think a good defensive player saves a great deal more than 20 runs a year. It is hard to quantify exactly what but how many poor defensive teams win in the playoffs. I think LH (who IMO will prove to be very one dimensional) saved a half run a game average over Tejeda. It is not even errors, but in balls fielded. Stats will tell you that the Orioles were a good defensive team last year. My eyes told me that they were poor. They were weak at 1B, SS, left field, and sadly catcher and pitcher (exceptions Guthrie, Trax) (lack of effort, Ramon). They were adequate at 3B and above average at 2B, CF and RF. Balls not gotten too create higher pitch counts, quicker moves to the pen, and more stress on the entire staff. Hernandez will probably hit .235 and knock in 35 runs which granted is poor but he will play a terrific SS and I think take at least an average of a half of a run a game off the staff. I know we will not agree but I do not think it is as easy as saying 50 runs saved does not equal 100 RBI. You can not quantify defense.

[cindyluvsbrady]

If that 4th player is Patterson I do that deal without thinking twice.

If there is no 4th player or its not Patterson I will say no.

Odd that Payton isn't involved.

I dont like any of them and I hate this trade! :002_ssad:

[Ballgame64]

FWIW...The Cubs Asst Gm, Randy Bush, was on Talking Baseball (ESPN 1000 in Chicago) this morning and said there was not going to be a trade. Could be posturing, could be true who knows. Bruce Levine then said the Cubs have made 7 or 8 different offers to MacPhail since December and MacPhail seems to change his mind each time on what is acceptable and whether or not he will even trade Roberts. Levine went on to say the Cubs FO is very frustrated with MacPhail's actions.

People here can believe whatever they want about Roberts' value, but there is no way any trade should ever take this long.

[Why Not?]

FWIW...The Cubs Asst Gm, Randy Bush, was on Talking Baseball (ESPN 1000 in Chicago) this morning and said there was not going to be a trade. Could be posturing, could be true who knows. Bruce Levine then said the Cubs have made 7 or 8 different offers to MacPhail since December and MacPhail seems to change his mind each time on what is acceptable and whether or not he will even trade Roberts. Levine went on to say the Cubs FO is very frustrated with MacPhail's actions.

People here can believe whatever they want about Roberts' value, but there is no way any trade should ever take this long.

This is true only if you come from a perspective that a trade MUST be made. In reality, that isn't the case.

If the Cubs really want Roberts and want him right away, then they will need to overpay. That is exactly the scenario MacPhail is hoping for.

[anselmO]

Am I the only one who wishes that Cedeno wasn't one of the players agreed on in this deal? I'd pull the trigger on this deal in a second if we were getting a legitimate 2B/SS prospect in return instead of Cedeno, but that just doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

After reading this board relentlessly the past few months, this guy Cedeno seems like nothing more than a quality backup, and I'm not looking forward to watching him as our starting shortstop everyday.

It just seems to me that this deal just doesn't have that eye-opening prospect that has you excited to watch.

Filling Brian's shoes at 2B will be hard for anyone to do and I definitely don't think Ronny Cedeno is the guy for the job.

[clapdiddy]

FWIW...The Cubs Asst Gm, Randy Bush, was on Talking Baseball (ESPN 1000 in Chicago) this morning and said there was not going to be a trade. Could be posturing, could be true who knows. Bruce Levine then said the Cubs have made 7 or 8 different offers to MacPhail since December and MacPhail seems to change his mind each time on what is acceptable and whether or not he will even trade Roberts. Levine went on to say the Cubs FO is very frustrated with MacPhail's actions.

People here can believe whatever they want about Roberts' value, but there is no way any trade should ever take this long.

I still believe that Roberts will be an Oriole come opening day...and opening day of 2009 as well.

I think that a deal would have been done with someone by now.

[Ballgame64]

This is true only if you come from a perspective that a trade MUST be made. In reality, that isn't the case.

If the Cubs really want Roberts and want him right away, then they will need to overpay. That is exactly the scenario MacPhail is hoping for.

You are right, a trade doesn't have to be made. The Cubs have not hidden their desire for obtaining Roberts from AM. There are some who say the offer of 3 to 4 players from the Cubs is already over-paying.

[Owatcher]

All teams would love to have players that can do both offensively and defensively, but realistically no team has players that excel at both at every position. If you have a Derek Jeter or Barry Bonds, you overlook their defensive problems. If you have a young Omar Visquel, you overlook his offensive problems. In either case you build the rest of the team to compensate for the "holes" in your lineup or defense.

The O's already have players that can do both (i.e Roberts, Jones, Markakis to name 3) and are looking for more, hence their desire to trade Roberts. If you can explain how the potential of any of the players the Cubs have allegedly offered for Roberts compares to the players you mentioned above (or even the O's players I mentioned), then maybe some of us skeptical O's fans would reconsider our opinion of the trade.

[rynomites]

I'll never understand why you want to hang onto this guy. Not only has he admitted to taking the juice, but he is 30 yrs old, close to free agency & makes $7 mill. If you have any hopes whatsoever in competing w/ the upper crust of the AL East then a complete & total overhaul needs to happen. If I were McFail, I would trade him to the Cub for Gallagher, Marshall & Cedeno. All three could be parts of the O's future. Brian Roberts has zero value for the future o's. This team will not compete for 4 more yrs & Roberts will be a has been by then.

[Mike B]

FWIW...The Cubs Asst Gm, Randy Bush, was on Talking Baseball (ESPN 1000 in Chicago) this morning and said there was not going to be a trade. Could be posturing, could be true who knows. Bruce Levine then said the Cubs have made 7 or 8 different offers to MacPhail since December and MacPhail seems to change his mind each time on what is acceptable and whether or not he will even trade Roberts. Levine went on to say the Cubs FO is very frustrated with MacPhail's actions.

People here can believe whatever they want about Roberts' value, but there is no way any trade should ever take this long.

Who cares if Randy Bush and Ted hendry are frustrated. Tell them to make an offer that is right and the deal will be done. Roberts can remain with the Orioles for the time being and will be a help to a young team. Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal and one is not enough. Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal, Colvin or Pie or Ceda would be enough. Give up one of the guys that you do not want to give up and the deal will get done.

[Mike B]

I'll never understand why you want to hang onto this guy. Not only has he admitted to taking the juice, but he is 30 yrs old, close to free agency & makes $7 mill. If you have any hopes whatsoever in competing w/ the upper crust of the AL East then a complete & total overhaul needs to happen. If I were McFail, I would trade him to the Cub for Gallagher, Marshall & Cedeno. All three could be parts of the O's future. Brian Roberts has zero value for the future o's. This team will not compete for 4 more yrs & Roberts will be a has been by then.

Then why do the Cubs want him?? He is 2 years from free agency, 7 million is cheap for his ability, and he did admit to trying roids which probably puts him in the majority. My guess is that even some of your sainted Cubs tryed them. As far as McFail, as Cub fans like to call him, if your team had not choked after Bartman tryed to catch a ball, he would have put together a World Series team. Gallagher, Marshall and Cedeno, not even close.

[JohnD]

If Cedeno is so good, why are the Cubs so intent on trading him? He's torn up every level of the minor leagues. He's either ready now or will never be. The Cubs don't exactly have Honus Wagner playing SS either, and there's already concern he's going to have to move fairly soon anyway.

Would you take Gallagher over Butler, Tillman, Spoone, Erbe, Olson, Patton, Albers, and/or Penn? He belongs grouped with these guys, but where would he rank among them all? Maybe fourth or so, at the most, in my book.

For what Roberts provides the Orioles and what they'd be getting back, this seems very underwhelming to me. None of the guys mentioned seem to really project as locks for the future the way some of the players in the Bedard and Tejada deals did. You get younger to get better, not just to get younger.

If that's the best the Cubs can offer, then pass.

[Big Mac]

After months of reading the numerous Brian Roberts trade threads, I feel that the only way I could get excited about this deal is if Felix Pie were going to be included. However, I understand that's probably not going to happen.

It's tough to get excited about a middle-infield of Luis Hernandez and Ronny Cedeno. After reading all of your comments and opinions on Cedeno, it seems like a lot of you share the same opinion. Cedeno looks like nothing more than a solid backup in the majors and I think what we have with Luis Hernandez brings the same to the table.

Ronny Cedeno isn't even comparable to Luis Hernandez. Sure LH is better with the glove, but the .150-.200 OPS difference more than offsets that.

To me, Cedeno is at worst, an average ML SS. He destroyed AA and AAA.

[Ruzious]

FWIW...The Cubs Asst Gm, Randy Bush, was on Talking Baseball (ESPN 1000 in Chicago) this morning and said there was not going to be a trade. Could be posturing, could be true who knows. Bruce Levine then said the Cubs have made 7 or 8 different offers to MacPhail since December and MacPhail seems to change his mind each time on what is acceptable and whether or not he will even trade Roberts. Levine went on to say the Cubs FO is very frustrated with MacPhail's actions.

People here can believe whatever they want about Roberts' value, but there is no way any trade should ever take this long.

That would be the case if the O's had to make a trade, but they don't - not by a long shot. If the Cubs were counting on making a deal for Roberts, they shouldn't have - unless they were planning on overspending.

GMs work on trades all year long. One out of hundreds or thousands discussed actually happens. If the Cubs are frustrated with AM, they're probably not being rational about the situation, imo.

[ChaosLex]

FWIW...The Cubs Asst Gm, Randy Bush, was on Talking Baseball (ESPN 1000 in Chicago) this morning and said there was not going to be a trade. Could be posturing, could be true who knows. Bruce Levine then said the Cubs have made 7 or 8 different offers to MacPhail since December and MacPhail seems to change his mind each time on what is acceptable and whether or not he will even trade Roberts. Levine went on to say the Cubs FO is very frustrated with MacPhail's actions.

People here can believe whatever they want about Roberts' value, but there is no way any trade should ever take this long.

Boohoo! Sounds like sour grapes to me.