The Bos stickin it to Peter again.

[utvolzac]

This is a big problem.

First of all, PA was absolutely right in vetoing this deal.

However, he was wrong for interfering and he is wrong for basically making BRob untouchable.

I think its way too early to say he's right.

If La Roche comes out and bombs 35-40 home runs again, is he still right?

If BRob doesn't start hitting better against lefties, is he still right?

What if Penn never pans out and turns into a major leaguer?

I could have gone either way with the trade. I think Penn will eventually get it together.

But I wouldn't have been upset if the trade did go through either. We'd have a young power hitting 1bman, which we need. We'd lose BRob, but replace him with Giles. I'd rather have BRob, but Giles is a pretty comparable player.

We'd be losing Penn, but he wasn't a contributing player (and it doesn't look like he'll make the team this year either), so we'd be filling a hole w/o creating a new one.

[BaltimoreTerp]

First of all, PA was absolutely right in vetoing this deal.

However, he was wrong for interfering and he is wrong for basically making BRob untouchable.

Yea, no, yes

He's not wrong for interfearing when he sees something wrong about to happen.

You own a business, right SG? Do you have any employees?

If you saw them making a mistake, even if it was within the bounds of what they were hired to do, would you let them do it with all the potential risks and problems it poses for your business? Or would you question them, and even overrule them to prevent the mistake?

[Sports Guy]

I think its way too early to say he's right.

If La Roche comes out and bombs 35-40 home runs again, is he still right?

If BRob doesn't start hitting better against lefties, is he still right?

What if Penn never pans out and turns into a major leaguer?

I could have gone either way with the trade. I think Penn will eventually get it together.

But I wouldn't have been upset if the trade did go through either. We'd have a young power hitting 1bman, which we need. We'd lose BRob, but replace him with Giles. I'd rather have BRob, but Giles is a pretty comparable player.

We'd be losing Penn, but he wasn't a contributing player (and it doesn't look like he'll make the team this year either), so we'd be filling a hole w/o creating a new one.

Yea, in hindsight, the answer may be different.

But LaRoche had a career year at the age of 27. Fluke or trend?

LaRoche is basically a guy that should be platooned..Now, the same can be said about BRob but Roberts is a more valuable player overall.

And then, throw in Penn, who i wouldn't even trade for LaRoche straight up and it makes the deal a no brainer, a no brainer as in no way.

Giles isn't even all that great and was cut anyway.

I think we could have gotten more for BRob.

[Sports Guy]

Are you conflicted over this?

No..It is a two fold answer.

[utvolzac]

It's like arguing that an owner should let a stupid move should be made just because his GM thinks it's ok.

Last time I checked, there are very few people here willing to give passes to the Orioles FO for making mistakes. Why are we trying to claim that we would do so now?

An owner should be allowed to overrule their GM if they believe a mistake is being made. It's that simple.

It's not arguing that Angelos hasn't made mistakes in the past, but that those mistakes should preclude him from making correct decisions simply because it goes against what others might think.

First of all, I don't think you can clearly say Duquette is making a mistake. We have a glaring hole at 1B and we need a power hitter. La Roche fills that need. We'd be replacing Roberts with Giles at 2B, so no hole there. We lose Penn but he wasn't on the roster anyway, so we're not creating a hole in the rotation.

I don't think going through with the trade would have been such a huge mistake. Angelos didn't even argue that it would have made the club weaker. He was arguing for purely non-on the field reasons.

The only way that this turns into an awful trade, IMO, is if Penn would have turned into the player we think he could be. If he never gets it together and never pans out in the majors, then you could say Angelos screwed up. Fair enough?

Even still, I trust the opinion of Duquette over Angelos. Being an owner doesn't mean you know what's best. If that were the case, they wouldn't waste money on hiring GMs in the first place.

[HoodGuy007]

You're just as bad as the rest of these guys. You seem to be saying it was ok for Angelos to interfere in this case because his actions agree with what you would have done. Should Angelos have let Duquette make the trade. YES or NO? Pick one!

Maybe?

[OldNewGuy]

My beef with the Bos is his continual bashing of the boss. (Not that it's undeserved, mind you, as most readers here will attest.) He does this a couple of times a year, at least. Every sports reader within 200 miles of a Post news stand knows his views on PA's stewardship. Bos. if you want bad ownership, look no further than Tony Cheng's neighborhood. AP has owned the Zephyrs/Bullets/Wheez for almost 45 years (and the Craps for 20+ years before unloading them) and has one championship to show for it. How often do we hear about this pathetic situation right in Bos's back yard. Darn seldom. Bos get some new material. OH can handle the PA blasting without any help!

[utvolzac]

Big difference. We're assuming that SG knows his business as well or better than someone he hires to manage the day to day affairs. Someone else already explained the difference. To use their analogy, it would be like Jim Duquette owning a law firm and using his own judgment over that of his employee, Peter Angelos, the lawyer. The smart owner who owns a business in which he has no expertise or experience hires such a person and then relies on that experts advice. If you the novice, think you know more than the expert, then you probably hired the wrong guy.

Exactly, other than being the owner, what qualifications does Angelos have to support that he knows anything about baseball. If he knows what's best for a baseball team, then he should just appoint himself GM and save some money.

Plus his argument had nothing to do with the trade making us a worse team. It was purely personal, because Roberts came through the system and does good work in the community.

Which makes me want him stay out of the decision making even more, because clearly being a fan favorite takes priority over someone who could improve the club.

[Kasumi Storms]

Mark my words, "the O's will be in fourth place at the end of the 2007". And you can thank Lord Angelos for another sub-par season.

[HoodGuy007]

Mark my words, "the O's will be in fourth place at the end of the 2007". And you can thank Lord Angelos for another sub-par season.

Because he didn't make one trade?! Here we go again...

[Sports Guy]

You're just as bad as the rest of these guys. You seem to be saying it was ok for Angelos to interfere in this case because his actions agree with what you would have done. Should Angelos have let Duquette make the trade. YES or NO? Pick one!

From a pure baseball sense? No he shouldn't have allowed it.

[Sports Guy]

You're clueless. You're trying to have it both ways. On one hand you say Angelos shouldn't interfere. On the other hand you agree that he should have vetoed that trade. You really are conflicted and confused.

I am not confused at all.

I believe they are 2 seperate issues.

If you are too stubborn to see that, that's on you.

The bottom line is it was a bad trade for the Baltimore Orioles and i am glad PA vetoed it.

[TonySoprano]

Mark my words, "the O's will be in fourth place at the end of the 2007". And you can thank Lord Angelos for another sub-par season.

Now there's going out on a limb.

[Leitch]

You're clueless. You're trying to have it both ways. On one hand you say Angelos shouldn't interfere. On the other hand you agree that he should have vetoed that trade. You really are conflicted and confused.

I don't think it's so black and white.

This is obviously an absurd notion, I hate to invoke Cal Ripken, and I'm definitely not comparing the two, but imagine you own the Orioles in 1985, and your General Manager wants to trade Cal and Storm Davis for Al Oliver and Damaso Garcia. You void that trade, right?

Obviously, you fire the baseball men that propose that monstrosity anyway, but my point is that it's not a simple black and white issue and that Angelos shouldn't necessarily be a 100% rubber stamp for Duquette and Flanagan.

[Mad Mark]

Are you guys glad we made the playoffs in 1996?

Would you give up those playoffs if you knew it would mean PA would have never interfered??

Yes.

And yes again.