Olney on O’s losing

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, I don’t think it happens because of the Angelos family.  It certainly could happen and the team certainly can spend the money to lure them here and we have the spots and the young players to put around them to make it a worthwhile move but yea, I’m guessing the Angelos family wouldn’t allow it.

It also gives you manufactured fuel for your fire to rage every day

 

[foxfield]

17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's not the same ownership.

 

Actually it is exactly the same ownership.  It is under different management, but Peter A. Angelos has not transferred ownership of the Baltimore Orioles and if he has, the Treasury Dept would like to have a word with him.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, foxfield said:

I really see almost no value to Price.  And I do not think $60 Million is an unreasonable add to next years budget, even if it is probably unlikely.   Bryant may very well be sold on being part of something here.  But overpay and 5 years for a pitcher in Baltimore isn't happening with Stroman IMHO.

But it would be fun...

I don’t really want to go 5 years for a pitcher.  My hope would be to get him for  4 years.  I would rather pay 4/110 than 5/125.  
 

However, the O’s aren’t in a position where they can be a lower bidder and nab the player, especially a pitcher.  They are going to have to overpay.

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Actually it is exactly the same ownership.  It is under different management, but Peter A. Angelos has not transferred ownership of the Baltimore Orioles and if he has, the Treasury Dept would like to have a word with him.

I agree.  As far as I'm concerned, it's the same ownership.  I don't think anyone thinks the Steelers have changed ownership over the years.  It's always been the Rooney family.  

Just because the sons are supposedly making the calls doesn't mean the philosophies have changed.  

[Ripken]

I thought we were signing Correa, too.  

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I agree.  As far as I'm concerned, it's the same ownership.  I don't think anyone thinks the Steelers have changed ownership over the years.  It's always been the Rooney family.  

Just because the sons are supposedly making the calls doesn't mean the philosophies have changed.  

Its the same but it’s not.

PA wouldn’t have hired Elias.  PA wouldn’t be jumping into the Intl market with both feet.  PA wouldn’t be spending the money on tech and things like that in the minors.

The sons have been worlds better for the foundation/infrastructure of the organization.  We just have no idea how they will be for the ML team but I’m not too optimistic.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:09 AM, Sports Guy said:

In the comments:

 

 

In other words, Olney is mad that he doesn't live in another universe where the financial realities of MLB, the CBA, and circumstances of history conspire to incentivize a lot of teams to not win now in the hopes of winning later.  Wouldn't it be beautiful if everyone were all in all the time and that was sustainable and realistic?  Sure.  We all have dreams.

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Its the same but it’s not.

PA wouldn’t have hired Elias.  PA wouldn’t be jumping into the Intl market with both feet.  PA wouldn’t be spending the money on tech and things like that in the minors.

The sons have been worlds better for the foundation/infrastructure of the organization.  We just have no idea how they will be for the ML team but I’m not too optimistic.

I see where you're coming from.  I kind of agree.  Part of me thinks that the sons have a bit of autonomy...maybe they do have the autonomy to hire a guy like Elias, finally get into the international market, the tech, etc.  

But I wouldn't be the least surprised if the sons have to go to PA in order to open up the purse strings on signing a free agent, etc.  Again, I've got no evidence for this but I wouldn't be surprised.  

[foxfield]

55 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I agree.  As far as I'm concerned, it's the same ownership.  I don't think anyone thinks the Steelers have changed ownership over the years.  It's always been the Rooney family.  

Just because the sons are supposedly making the calls doesn't mean the philosophies have changed.  

I was being technical.  The son's are running things.  We really do not know their philosophies and whether they have changed.  We do have evidence that they signed off on a full rebuild, which is something Dad never did.  But the son's are not the owners, Pete is.  Until he sells or dies.  And if he dies owning the team there will be a massive Estate Tax due and I do not believe the son's will have the resources to pay.  

___

Whether or not the team is managed differently today, by the son's.  Ownership must eventually physically change hands and that will be a taxable event.  When we talk about how ownership restricts the Orioles, it may restrict the son's regardless of their wishes.  We do not know if the team will be sold or kept by the son's.  But I promise that they know...right now, what they want to do.  And their decisions are going to be made to effect the best result for them.

It is merely my opinion, but it seems to me, the decisions to date are to make the team as attractive as possible without long term commitments.  If we do not see some FA activity this winter, it will reinforce the idea that this team is being set up to sell.

That could mean many things...not automatically good or bad.  Sports Guy is dreaming of Stroman, Price and Bryant.  My offseason dream is Kevin Plank or Jeff Bezoz or Can of Corn....I'd especially like to see CoC in a position to make sure all of the Oriole talent graduates without regard to controlling rights...but I know I am just dreaming....

One day.  

As I sent this Chris Davis announces retirement.  This team is ready to focus on the ML roster in 2022.  We may see the future of the Os and Angelos family a little clearer this winter.

[Frobby]

47 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

To follow up on that last post…

One thing to remember is that a big part of rebuilding is that you have obtain long term payroll flexibility.

At this moment, the Os have zero guaranteed dollars on the 2023 payroll outside of any deferred payments they owe, which is very little money in the grand scheme of things.

You have some arb eligible  guys that will be making some decent salaries if they are still here but generally speaking, the guaranteed money is next to nothing.

On top of that, you also have the “Lamar Jackson scenario”.  IE, you have important, elite level assets making next to no money, so you take advantage of that by signing vets to contracts.  The bottom line number SHoULD be the total budget.  It shouldn’t matter if a few guys are making a lot of the money.  If Adley is a 5+ WAR guy making 500k, great.  If GRod is a borderline CY candidate making 500k, great.  You aren’t paying for that production.  That allows you to go crazy for guys.  Look at what SD has done, for example.

I agree with this.   You just have to be careful to allow room to retain some of those younger guys as they grow more expensive.   But you definitely can take advantage when some of your best players are dirt cheap and pay top dollar for some other guys.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I see where you're coming from.  I kind of agree.  Part of me thinks that the sons have a bit of autonomy...maybe they do have the autonomy to hire a guy like Elias, finally get into the international market, the tech, etc.  

But I wouldn't be the least surprised if the sons have to go to PA in order to open up the purse strings on signing a free agent, etc.  Again, I've got no evidence for this but I wouldn't be surprised.  

Agreed.  I guess it depends on how bad his health is and what kind of agreements they have.  This is obviously not info we are privy to, so all we can do is speculate.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I agree with this.   You just have to be careful to allow room to retain some of those younger guys as they grow more expensive.   But you definitely can take advantage when some of your best players are dirt cheap and pay top dollar for some other guys.  

No doubt..which is why you have to be careful about how long the deals are.

This is a big reason why I care a lot more about years than money..that and the obvious decline the older a player gets.

Its also why I think we need to get into the pre-arbitration extension business.  Save some long term money.

[RZNJ]

17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

To each their own.

I don't think that looking at what the sons have done and extrapolating that they might be maximizing revenue counts as a conspiracy theory.

Quote

 

You don't actually know that. 

That's speculation on your part.

 

 

[Just Regular]

49 minutes ago, Ripken said:

I thought we were signing Correa, too.  

He would get my first $25M.    I think CBA talks will give us ample discussion time, but if the end of it is shortly after New Year's Day or something, we could get most of an offseason in like 4-5 weeks before camps open.

Obviously position players forecast more reliably than pitchers for the 6+ year periods Bryant and Correa will command, and I feel which one you prefer somewhat relates to whether you believe a MLB shortstop is currently present in the minor league system.

[DrungoHazewood]

46 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

But I wouldn't be the least surprised if the sons have to go to PA in order to open up the purse strings on signing a free agent, etc.  Again, I've got no evidence for this but I wouldn't be surprised.  

I think it's more likely that 92-year-old Peter Angelos is in no shape to make rational (even prior Peter Angelos "rational") decisions on things like that.  When someone of that age has been avoiding public appearances for years it's often because they're not altogether in control of their faculties.