Jorge Mateo

[Moose Milligan]

16 hours ago, ShoelesJoe said:

Mateo’s last 40 games:

.289 /.343 /.562 /.905 OPS

40 games is a quarter of a season, so we’re moving out of SSS territory. At what point should Hyde move him up in the lineup? He’s usually batting 9th, but that’s a waste of this kind of production. And I don’t want to hear about having your second leadoff guy at the bottom of the order. That’s a crock. 
 

The team needs a kick in the pants right now, and moving Mateo into the #1 or #2 spot in the lineup might just do the trick. 
 

 

I agree about the second leadoff guy at the bottom of the order being stupid.  You want your best guys at the top of the order so they get more at bats.  

I'm not sure about 2nd, Rutschman has been doing great there.  Leadoff might be a possibility, he's hitting better than Mullins now and it's not by a little bit, either.

That said, I'm with SG and I'm not ready to agree that this is who he is.  But he's looked great over the past month or so and I'm happy for him.

[RVAOsFan]

I really enjoy when Mullins comes up to bat and Mateo is on base, just so much speed. I wouldn't mind seeing those guys bat 1-2, maybe have Mateo lead off a few games to see if that gets Mullins going and push Adley back to 3.  Although I really like him in the 2 spot.

[RZNJ]

I don't think Mateo is a top of the order hitter but nothing wrong with having him higher than 9th and he has been as high as 7th I think.   

[DrungoHazewood]

This is the point in the conversation where I talk about how lineup order is trivial compared to who is in the lineup.  

Literally the difference between the most and least logical lineups (given the same nine players) is 20-30 runs over 162 games.  I mean, like the difference between whatever you think is right and batting Odor leadoff and whomever is in the coldest slump third.

The difference between any two halfway reasonable lineups will be so small as to be undetectable.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

This is the point in the conversation where I talk about how lineup order is trivial compared to who is in the lineup.  

Literally the difference between the most and least logical lineups (given the same nine players) is 20-30 runs over 162 games.  I mean, like the difference between whatever you think is right and batting Odor leadoff and whomever is in the coldest slump third.

The difference between any two halfway reasonable lineups will be so small as to be undetectable.

Isn’t 20-30 runs like 2-3 wins and don’t a lot of teams end up missing the playoffs or division titles by 3 games or less?

[Fiver6565]

I would like to see Mateo leading off, for a game or two at least, against LH pitchers, if they are going to continue to sit Mullins or move him down against them.  Would rather Mateo up there than McKenna.  Bat Mateo 1, then Mullins and McKenna 8/9.

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Isn’t 20-30 runs like 2-3 wins and don’t a lot of teams end up missing the playoffs or division titles by 3 games or less?

That was the worst case scenario. Most teams don't bat Odor leadoff for 162 games.

[btdart20]

And here I was thinking Vavra hit leadoff, Mullins moves toward the middle, and Mateo stays at the bottom.

 

 

 

I'll see my way out...

[interloper]

2022 rWAR:

Correa: 3.1
Mateo: 2.6

A couple days ago it was much closer: 2.8 to 2.6. 

People who want to give Correa $30 mil/yr this offseason are crazy. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by interloper

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Isn’t 20-30 runs like 2-3 wins and don’t a lot of teams end up missing the playoffs or division titles by 3 games or less?

Yea, so don't bat the guy with the .575 OPS leadoff and Odor 3rd and Rutschman 9th and you'll be fine. Don't make the lineup by reverse order of wOBA. 20-30 runs is the difference between picking the worst lineup you could possibly put together and the theoretical best.

Edited August 15, 2022 by DrungoHazewood

[MurphDogg]

I kept forgetting to throw this into this thread. I know how divisive many here find Keith Law, so I thought people would enjoy this.

In a chat on August 1st, Law was asked whether Mateo's success should be a factor in the long term positions of Gunnar Henderson and Jordan Westburg. Rather than simply answering no (which is in my opinion the obvious correct answer), He  goes out of his way to say how little he thinks of Jorge Mateo.

"Jorge Mateo is not a major league caliber regular. He's roster chum.

The best SS currently playing in the Orioles' system is Ortiz. The best 3b is Henderson. Westburg could move to 2b or slide around multiple spots."

I admit that I am more down on Mateo than others in this thread as I don't see him as a long term regular on a competitive team, given that he is already 27-years-old. However, he is certainly a Major League player, would be an elite utility infielder / pinch runner on any playoff bound team and wouldn't kill a team's chances if he were penciled in as option A at shortstop and as a #9 hitter in the short term (over the next couple seasons). The idea that he is roster chum is laughable at best.

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I kept forgetting to throw this into this thread. I know how divisive many here find Keith Law, so I thought people would enjoy this.

In a chat on August 1st, Law was asked whether Mateo's success should be a factor in the long term positions of Gunnar Henderson and Jordan Westburg. Rather than simply answering no (which is in my opinion the obvious correct answer), He  goes out of his way to say how little he thinks of Jorge Mateo.

"Jorge Mateo is not a major league caliber regular. He's roster chum.

The best SS currently playing in the Orioles' system is Ortiz. The best 3b is Henderson. Westburg could move to 2b or slide around multiple spots."

I admit that I am more down on Mateo than others in this thread as I don't see him as a long term regular on a competitive team, given that he is already 27-years-old. However, he is certainly a Major League player, would be an elite utility infielder / pinch runner on any playoff bound team and wouldn't kill a team's chances if he were penciled in as option A at shortstop and as a #9 hitter in the short term (over the next couple seasons). The idea that he is roster chum is laughable at best.

Yes, I think we have to let it play out.  See how long Mateo hits well.   Gunnar can begin at 3B and move to SS if needed.   I don't think Mateo being 27 plays into this until he is at least 29 and in his 5th year of service time.   Whether he keeps playing well is the most important thing.

As far as Ortiz goes, lets see how he hits at AAA.

Having too many talented guys is a good thing.  I'll take those problems all day long.

Edited August 15, 2022 by wildcard

[jdwilde1]

32 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I kept forgetting to throw this into this thread. I know how divisive many here find Keith Law, so I thought people would enjoy this.

Across the MLB prospect prognostication industry I get the impression that many “experts” struggle with moving away from their earlier evaluations.  Keith Law appears to fall squarely in that group.  He’s been down on Mateo since at least 2017, and I believe that he never had him as highly rated as most of  the other publications.  Calling Mateo “roster chum” is just obnoxious.  

Edited August 15, 2022 by jdwilde1
Minor revisions

[ledzepp8]

2 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

Across the MLB prospect prognostication industry I get the impression that many “experts” struggle with moving away from their initial evaluations.  Keith Law appears to fall squarely in that group.  Calling Mateo “roster chum” is just obnoxious.

It's not even just that it's obnoxious. It's just a comment meant to provoke a fan base and has nothing to back up his "assessment". 

[MCO'sFan]

17 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

Across the MLB prospect prognostication industry I get the impression that many “experts” struggle with moving away from their earlier evaluations.  Keith Law appears to fall squarely in that group.  He’s been down on Mateo since at least 2017, and I believe that he never had him as highly rated as most of  the other publications.  Calling Mateo “roster chum” is just obnoxious.  

I agree with this 100%. That's why a guy like Austin Martin was placed in the top 15 of the top 100 when drafted and remained in the top 100 well after his obvious flaws as a prospect were obvious. It is also why I am very surprised at Gunnar's meteoric rise.

Edited August 15, 2022 by MCO'sFan