07/26/22 Roster Moves: Terrin Vavra is called up from Norfolk (MLB debut) and Arauz to the IL

[Fiver6565]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This may be the thinking.   That said, Odor has batted 7th or 8th for 14 consecutive games.   There’s probably a specific reason he’s batting 6th tonight.  I have no idea what the reason is.   

There is no reason, because he isn't batting 6th, unless the original posted lineup got changed.  He's 7th, directly ahead of only Urias and Mateo.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Fiver6565
spelling/typo

[TheWall]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

14-6

Yes, Odor is clearly responsible for that. It has nothing to do with all of the guys that are actually providing value. If only we had a way to track which players have been more valuable over a period of time...

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, we will see how this evolves over time.  Two games is not “a significant time” — I assume you agree with that.  I think what we’ll see is Vavra will be eased in and then we’ll see how he does, both offensively and defensively.   The better he plays, the more he’ll play.   But he’ll need to show he’s an upgrade.   I don’t think this is a situation where the team will play him 15 out of 20 games no matter how he does, like it was with Adley.

I guess my biggest issue is Odor does not belong starting in the major leagues yet here is with a perfect suitable replacement on the roster. I agree two games doesn't mean anything in the big game of things, but what is the purpose of bringing Vavra up and saying he's not going to play CF (his other position) and he's not going to start over a sub replacement level veteran? 

You ease him in by not starting him against a tough left-hander.

But again, my biggest issue is that Odor does not need to be starting and if the team has decided Vavra is good enough to be o the major league team, he's a suitable replacement for Odor. 

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's the fan boy and girl thing. They love the guys that jump around and put on homer necklaces and they think wow, this guy is so important to the team winning. I don't think any of that matters. What mattes is putting the best nine guys on the field and you don't bring up a prospect and sit him on the bench when you are starting a well below average major leaguer because he's a good clubhouse guy.

I'm enjoying the Orioles winning as much as the next guy, but I look at the bigger picture. Don't bury prospects in favor of veternosity driven players. 

Come on.   Not starting Vavra while the current starters on a win streak is not burying  a prospect.

[Fiver6565]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's the fan boy and girl thing. They love the guys that jump around and put on homer necklaces and they think wow, this guy is so important to the team winning. I don't think any of that matters. What mattes is putting the best nine guys on the field and you don't bring up a prospect and sit him on the bench when you are starting a well below average major leaguer because he's a good clubhouse guy.

I'm enjoying the Orioles winning as much as the next guy, but I look at the bigger picture. Don't bury prospects in favor of veternosity driven players. 

I think its more about people not overreacting to two games, rather than mysterious 'Odor Love' or 'Fan Boy Thing'.  As I've said numerous times now, if this keeps up for several games, I'll full agree with the vitriol on the lineup.

[NCRaven]

I'm leaning Tony on this one.  Odor is a bad player at this point.  Sometimes he runs into a pitch and makes an impact, but he's a more likely 0-4 on an everyday basis.  Vavra is a legitimate prospect who should be playing every day. 

Now, I have no problem with Hyde saying that he doesn't see Vavra as a better option than any of Mullins, Hays, or even McKenna in the outfield.  Mullins is a lefty regular who will only sit against tough lefties.  Vavra is a rookie lefty who shouldn't be facing tough lefty pitchers.  So, if Mullins sits, it's going to be Hays or McKenna in center.  I also have no problem with how Stowers was used in a very short stint in Toronto.  If he'd been here longer, then he should have played.  But, knowing he was only here for the series and was not being added to the 40 man roster, his playing time wasn't an issue for me.

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, TheWall said:

Yes, Odor is clearly responsible for that. It has nothing to do with all of the guys that are actually providing value. If only we had a way to track which players have been more valuable over a period of time...

Odor has slashed .194/.271/.387/.659 in 70 PAs. I'm sure he's directly responsible for the 14-6 record in the month. lol

 

[ChuckS]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Come on.   Not starting Vavra while the current starters on a win streak is not burying  a prospect.

A winning streak or even winning in general is not a reason not to continually improve the personnel on the field. 

You realize the winning is in spite of Odor and not because of him right?

[TheWall]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Odor has slashed .194/.271/.387/.659 in 70 PAs. I'm sure he's directly responsible for the 14-6 record in the month. lol

 

You're preaching to the choir here. 

[SteveA]

 

48 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Stowers started two of the four games he was on the team.   He wasn’t brought up for the long term, he was plugging a hole.   He went 1 for 7 in the two games, and the Orioles lost both the games he started, and won the two he didn’t.   I’m absolutely fine with how they used him.  

Vavra will get some looks but he’s not going to play more than Arauz or Martin did, especially in the beginning.  Don’t get me wrong, I’d be happy if he played every day.   But I never expected that was going to happen, so I’m not disappointed that it isn’t.  
 

Right, and one of two games Stowers didn't start was vs a lefty.   Which is perfectly reasonable.   

So basically, his "underuse" of Stowers that so many people lament, was not starting him against Kevin Gausman in the 4th game of the series.   A day game after a night game (where he had gone 0-4 with 3 Ks) and would have had to face a very tough pitcher.

We are all anxious to see "future" guys so we act like little children whose candy is taken away when we don't get to see them right now and as much as possible.  And once we decide that someone isn't part of the future we put them in that category in our mind and devalue them and think of them as worthless.   Look at what some people were saying about Urias when he had the bad start in April.

We are red hot and if you haven't noticed, the lineup has really stabilized over the past couple weeks while we have played the Yankees and Tampa.   Nevin fell into a bench role with far less frequent starts, Adley is catching as many games as you ever could expect and DHing almost every game he isn't catching, Arauz was buried on the bench, and McKenna's playing time had dropped too.

Sure, I'd like to see Vavra.   But the degree of people being upset about him not playing is way too high.   By the end of next week we will probably have more wins than in any season in 5 years, and by Labor Day we will probalby have surpassed the win expectation for this team of most pundits, the Vegas odds, and the preseason opinion of the majority of us on this board, with a month left to go in the season.   So I would say Hyde must be pushing some of the right buttons.

 

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, TheWall said:

Yes, Odor is clearly responsible for that. It has nothing to do with all of the guys that are actually providing value. If only we had a way to track which players have been more valuable over a period of time...

He is part of it.  Not all of it but part of it.

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I think its more about people not overreacting to two games, rather than mysterious 'Odor Love' or 'Fan Boy Thing'.  As I've said numerous times now, if this keeps up for several games, I'll full agree with the vitriol on the lineup.

There is definitely a fanboy aspect to the guys who think Odor actually helps this team win. If Odor was not jumping up and putting on homer necklaces, they would be calling for his head like the rest of us.

Sure, it's two games, but it gives us an idea about how Hyde thinks. If he continues to play Odor I will know that he's not the manager of the future here with all the prospects coming up. 

We can't have the veteranosity manager managing a young team that will need to integrate rookies onto the team over the next few years. If he won't stop playing an obvious sub replacement level when they have better alternatives that concerns me.

Saying all that, I don't even know if Hyde makes out his lineups. For all I know Sid's computer pops out this lineup and somehow Odor has hacked into it and made the program think he's the 2016 version of himself.

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, TheWall said:

You're preaching to the choir here. 

Haha, I was just adding to your post for others to see. We see things the same way here.

[Fiver6565]

I'm just glad we have a lineup that we care about enough to debate who is in it and where they are situated.  God knows in the past 5 seasons no one gave a crap who was batting where.  I might be easier to please baseball-wise than most though, who knows.

[SteveA]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I guess my biggest issue is Odor does not belong starting in the major leagues yet here is with a perfect suitable replacement on the roster. I agree two games doesn't mean anything in the big game of things, but what is the purpose of bringing Vavra up and saying he's not going to play CF (his other position) and he's not going to start over a sub replacement level veteran? 

You ease him in by not starting him against a tough left-hander.

But again, my biggest issue is that Odor does not need to be starting and if the team has decided Vavra is good enough to be o the major league team, he's a suitable replacement for Odor. 

The team only decided he was good enough to be on the major league team because the 26th guy on the roster got his hand mashed on and had to go on the IL.  He wasn't on the team before that and likely wouldn't be if not for that incident.

If he plays 2 games a week that will still be more frequent playing time than the guy he replaced.