It's time to play the players of the future

[RZNJ]

Buck saw himself as more than a manager. He saw himself as a scout/talent evaluator.   I think he took pride in that but I’m not sure he had any real talent for it.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Buck’s biggest failure was his pitching coaches. At a time the team was relying on young arms it was a revolving door. Adair was a train wreck. If Arrieta alone works out who knows what could have happened. Jake and Britton were on the 2012 team. Zach had some decent starts but overall was pretty blah. Imagine if those two popped that year.

Bingo.  I’m not going to rehash this stuff in detail because it’s off topic.  But Dave Wallace was the only decent PC Buck chose in 8 years, and he and his bullpen coach Dom Chiti apparently left in part because people like Brady Anderson were interfering with their coaching.   (Wallace never said this, Chiti did.)  Everyone else was a disaster.  

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why you have to take a shot at Brooks?

He was only playing because he had some bad investments and needed the money.

I said it's mostly about the talent.  Does anyone think Hyde is suddenly a greatly improved manager this season over last?

Buck was a fine manager whose main strength was his ability to handle the media.

He did have a fabulous year managing the pen in 2012.  He also left Britton on the bench in a do or die game.

Same guy did both things.

 

Buck played the media around here like a fiddle. Steering conversations the way he wanted to. Nobody pushed back. Granted they won a lot but still. 
 

The media plays a big role in perception. I know you know this but in 16 Kim was booed early on because he would not go back to the minors. Those stories were all Buck. Dan signed him, he wasn’t going to send him down. Buck let it be known to the media he should go down. The fans took it out on Kim early on. That was Buck’s doing. He could have vented privately but instead he created a story that was unnecessary. He didn’t want him on the team. 
 

The local media talked to Buck everyday.    Common sense says that played to his benefit. I’m sure he took advantage of that. Buck would be a good politician. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Buck played the media around here like a fiddle. Steering conversations the way he wanted to. Nobody pushed back. Granted they won a lot but still. 
 

The media plays a big role in perception. I know you know this but in 16 Kim was booed early on because he would not go back to the minors. Those stories were all Buck. Dan signed him, he wasn’t going to send him down. Buck let it be known to the media he should go down. The fans took it out on Kim early on. That was Buck’s doing. He could have vented privately but instead he created a story that was unnecessary. He didn’t want him on the team. 
 

The local media talked to Buck everyday.    Common sense says that played to his benefit. I’m sure he took advantage of that. Buck would be a good politician. 

He's doing great with the media in New York right now.

 

[eddie83]

When it’s all said and done the Henderson pick is the one of the biggest in franchise history. It may wind up being the single most important individual move of this era. This has 96 Ravens written all over it. Ogden and Lewis. 
 

 

[eddie83]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

He's doing great with the media in New York right now.

 

Sure. Win baby. I’m not trying to take shots at him. He did a damn good job here. Huge part of the success. Like all of us he is human. 

Also many of the National media covered him locally with the Yankees. They all like him.  

[Tony-OH]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:05 AM, Brooks The Great said:

Totally agree. 

It's not really strange how Stowers has been used. He's just been used poorly and mismanaged. It's one of the few reasons I don't think Hyde is the long-term answer as manager of this team as it transitions to a perennial playoff contenders The preference for veterans is one of the reasons Buck Showalter was/is a mediocre manager and one of the reasons why he ultimately got fired.

The only area Hyde is better than Buck was is with bullpen management. Both were/are awful managers for lineup optimization and quickly making needed roster changes (for example, Hyde benching Odor, Buck moving Hardy out of the 2 hole, etc.) to help the team.

I'm not ready to give up on Hyde who does a lot of things well, but I really disagree with how he used Stowers early on and his refusal to let him face lefties which he's always hot quite well.

Either way, it appears he's going to be playing pretty much regularly the rest of the year and that's a good thing. I believe in Stowers' bat more than some others. He's not going to be a high average guy, but he's going to walk a bi and he's going to put up some really good extra base hit numbers if given a chance to play everyday next year. 

I do have some questions about his defense overall because of the poor jump numbers so far and below average speed, so I still would like to see him take groundball at first base and see how he looks. 

[MurphDogg]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not ready to give up on Hyde who does a lot of things well, but I really disagree with how he used Stowers early on and his refusal to let him face lefties which he's always hot quite well.

Either way, it appears he's going to be playing pretty much regularly the rest of the year and that's a good thing. I believe in Stowers' bat more than some others. He's not going to be a high average guy, but he's going to walk a bi and he's going to put up some really good extra base hit numbers if given a chance to play everyday next year. 

I do have some questions about his defense overall because of the poor jump numbers so far and below average speed, so I still would like to see him take groundball at first base and see how he looks. 

Yeah, I think Stowers' defensive future is to be a slightly better version of Mancini as your weaker defensive corner outfielder, playing LF at Fenway and RF at Camden Yards and Yankee Stadium. That is no knock on Mancini who played the outfield exceptionally well considering he never played the outfield in college or the minors. Hopefully Stowers can pick up first base in the spring and can be comfortable DHing to provide versatility.

I am curious whether Hyde is the one making the calls as to whether he is in the lineup against lefties, I know a lot of those decisions that used to be made by managers have been usurped by the guys upstairs.  But when the alternative is Aguilar, it is crazy that he isn't in there against lefties, as I have posted several times before his OPS+ against lefties in the minors each of the last two seasons has been 950+(!).

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not ready to give up on Hyde who does a lot of things well, but I really disagree with how he used Stowers early on and his refusal to let him face lefties which he's always hot quite well.

There’s no way Hyde is unaware of Stowers’ MiL splits vs. lefties.  When he has not used Stowers, I’m sure his analysis is more sophisticated than “I can’t let Stowers face lefties.”  I realize he has mentioned Stowers beIng a lefty in some of his explanations, but I don’t believe that’s the only reason for Hyde’s decisions.  

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

There’s no way Hyde is unaware of Stowers’ MiL splits vs. lefties.  When he has not used Stowers, I’m sure his analysis is more sophisticated than “I can’t let Stowers face lefties.”  I realize he has mentioned Stowers beIng a lefty in some of his explanations, but I don’t believe that’s the only reason for Hyde’s decisions.  

Who said Hyde has no idea of his splits? I really have no idea why he was starting Aguliar at DH against lefties when Stowers had such great stats against them in the minors. 

But at the end of the day, Hyde has given him 1 PA against a lefty despite his success against them. I'm all about getting platoon differences, but he needs to understand that some guys have reverse platoon numbers and it's not always about the pitcher's platoon numbers.

Now would I pinch hit Stowers against a left reliever who dominates lefthanders, probably not, but I would have zero issues starting him against lefty starters.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

There’s no way Hyde is unaware of Stowers’ MiL splits vs. lefties.  When he has not used Stowers, I’m sure his analysis is more sophisticated than “I can’t let Stowers face lefties.”  I realize he has mentioned Stowers beIng a lefty in some of his explanations, but I don’t believe that’s the only reason for Hyde’s decisions.  

I'd hope he also knows that Stowers' splits are probably illusory, and that essentially every batter is somewhat better against opposite-handed pitching. 

[maybenxtyr]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Are you guys really rehashing the Buck and DD fallout?  

What's next, talking about the Davey Johnson firing?

I think the Teixiera sighting is on deck.

[baltfan]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it was a head fake.

I miswrote.  I agree it was likely a head fake.

[Sports Guy]

And Stowers and Vavra are back on the bench tonight 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

And Stowers and Vavra are back on the bench tonight 

Why even play the game then?