Go Get J. D. Martinez and Zach Greinke

[DrinkinWithFermi]

14 hours ago, SteveA said:

JD is a Dodger.  One year, ten million.

 

14 hours ago, Ripken said:

JD a Dodger now.  1/10.

 

14 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Yeah, I would have paid that

I wasn't super into JDM, but he at least met the requirements to actually count as an upgrade for us, unlike Gibson or Frazier, so I would have been willing to beat that deal. Oh well.

I guess I'll pine after Justin Turner and Michael Conforto for a little while until they inevitably sign somewhere else now.

[Ripken]

31 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

 

 

I wasn't super into JDM, but he at least met the requirements to actually count as an upgrade for us, unlike Gibson or Frazier, so I would have been willing to beat that deal. Oh well.

I guess I'll pine after Justin Turner and Michael Conforto for a little while until they inevitably sign somewhere else now.

Didn't want JD at all.  Power is falling off, can't play defense, not left handed.  Still a good hitter but not what we need.  Conforto and Bassitt were my guys going in.  I'm sure Conforto will take Mike's 1/8 offer.  

[DrinkinWithFermi]

19 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Didn't want JD at all.  Power is falling off, can't play defense, not left handed.  Still a good hitter but not what we need.  Conforto and Bassitt were my guys going in.  I'm sure Conforto will take Mike's 1/8 offer.  

Like I said, I wasn't crazy about him but he fell firmly within the acceptable range, IMO. I don't really care about which side he hits from as long as he makes the team better, and JDM still pummels lefties (.319/.402/.597 in 2022, .306/.377/.579 for his career), which is an area where I think we could use some improvement, and he was still better against righties (.261/.323/.406 in 2022) than some of our current regulars.

But we'll have to settle for Adam Frazier and Nomar Mazara, I guess.

[tabletop]

Martinez 1/10, can only DH, 1 WAR player in 2022

Frazier 1/8, can play any position, 1 WAR player in 2022

One of them was wanted by some O’s fans and the other is causing some to question if Elias is the right GM for the job going forward. Really makes you think.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, tabletop said:

Martinez 1/10, can only DH, 1 WAR player in 2022

Frazier 1/8, can play any position, 1 WAR player in 2022

One of them was wanted by some O’s fans and the other is causing some to question if Elias is the right GM for the job going forward. Really makes you think.

No it doesn’t.  JD Martinez has been a far superior hitter, even recently. The team needs a big bat, not a UTI guy.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

1 minute ago, tabletop said:

Martinez 1/10, can only DH, 1 WAR player in 2022

Frazier 1/8, can play any position, 1 WAR player in 2022

One of them was wanted by some O’s fans and the other is causing some to question if Elias is the right GM for the job going forward. Really makes you think.

Frazier's offense was basically identical to Rougned Odor's last year (80 OPS+ vs. 79 OPS+) and he posted some of the worst batted ball metrics in all of baseball.

That isn't hyperbole either, we're talking 2nd and 3rd percentile.

[Frobby]

21 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Frazier's offense was basically identical to Rougned Odor's last year (80 OPS+ vs. 79 OPS+) and he posted some of the worst batted ball metrics in all of baseball.

That isn't hyperbole either, we're talking 2nd and 3rd percentile.

The metrics in which he did poorly, he always does poorly.  Yet, he’s been a 12 WAR player.

He doesn’t hit the ball hard.  He never has.  Not just last year - any year.  

What he does do, is make consistent contact, with a good degree of bat control.  That’s what he’s good at.  

Earl Weaver used to say (paraphrasing): “Don’t tell me what a player can’t do.  Tell me what he can do, and I’ll figure out how to use him.”   

I’m not particularly in favor of this move, but when there’s a runner on 2B and nobody out, or a runner on 3B and less than two out, I’m going to be happy seeing Frazier at the plate.

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The metrics in which he did poorly, he always does poorly.  Yet, he’s been a 12 WAR player.

He doesn’t hit the ball hard.  He never has.  Not just last year - any year.  

What he does do, is make consistent contact, with a good degree of bat control.  That’s what he’s good at.  

Earl Weaver used to say (paraphrasing): “Don’t tell me what a player can’t do.  Tell me what he can do, and I’ll figure out how to use him.”   

I’m not particularly in favor of this move, but when there’s a runner on 2B and nobody out, or a runner on 3B and less than two out, I’m going to be happy seeing Frazier at the plate.

 

That is fair, but I will counter by saying that I will dread seeing him come to bat with a runner on first and less than 2 outs. He doesn't hit the ball hard and he's a slow runner, which means that he will probably produce GIDPs at a prodigious rate. 

[tabletop]

6 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

That is fair, but I will counter by saying that I will dread seeing him come to bat with a runner on first and less than 2 outs. He doesn't hit the ball hard and he's a slow runner, which means that he will probably produce GIDPs at a prodigious rate. 

http://hosted.stats.com/mlb/getleaders.asp?rank=029

[DrinkinWithFermi]

3 minutes ago, tabletop said:

http://hosted.stats.com/mlb/getleaders.asp?rank=029

So 13th in MLB.

My fears are well-founded it would seem.

[interloper]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The metrics in which he did poorly, he always does poorly.  Yet, he’s been a 12 WAR player.

He doesn’t hit the ball hard.  He never has.  Not just last year - any year.  

What he does do, is make consistent contact, with a good degree of bat control.  That’s what he’s good at.  

Earl Weaver used to say (paraphrasing): “Don’t tell me what a player can’t do.  Tell me what he can do, and I’ll figure out how to use him.”   

I’m not particularly in favor of this move, but when there’s a runner on 2B and nobody out, or a runner on 3B and less than two out, I’m going to be happy seeing Frazier at the plate.
 

Same, although I might argue I'd feel pretty good about Vavra in that spot also, who is kind of like a young, if untested, Frazier. 

But overall your post is how I feel about the move. It's clear they want his contact skills, which no matter how you feel about him are some of the best in the game. If you hate the move, all you can do is try to hope that the adjustments he and the O's agreed that he needs to make actually bear fruit. If they do, he could be a pesky guy in the lineup, which the offense could use a little more of. I'll again make the case that this move is about Mateo's bat against righties. You can sit him, start Gunnar at SS, start Frazier at 2B and have a lot less swing and miss against a tough RHP without giving up much defense (if you believe in Gunnar's SS abilities). 

None of that has to mean I don't prefer to see Vavra and Westburg get a crack over Frazier. I do. But that's the reasoning behind the signing: depth, defense, and contact. That's pretty obvious. Pointing that out doesn't make anyone a pollyanna, it's just discussion. I can only engage in a board-wide gripe session for so long. It's more interesting to figure out how a player might fit. 

[tabletop]

4 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

So 13th in MLB.

My fears are well-founded it would seem.

13th in the AL. For whatever reason they only show it by league. Not a number you want but by no means "prodigious". Most hitters higher than him are power bats.

[Sports Guy]

Frazier did has a nice WAR run from 2018-2021. 
 

But I don’t care.  Even if he gives us a 2.5 WAR this year, I will still hate the signing unless Ortiz and Westburg still gets most or all of a ML season in 2023.

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Just now, tabletop said:

13th in the AL. For whatever reason they only show it by league. Not a number you want but by no means "prodigious". 

Ah, did not notice that it was AL only, I automatically assumed it would be MLB-wide based on the link being filed under /mlb/. That's a little better but still not good.

4 minutes ago, tabletop said:

Most hitters higher than him are power bats.

It's a lot easier to accept a lot of GIDPs if they are accompanied by 25-30 HRs and a bunch of RBIs.

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Frazier did has a nice WAR run from 2018-2021. 
 

But I don’t care.  Even if he gives us a 2.5 WAR this year, I will still hate the signing unless Ortiz and Westburg still gets most or all of a ML season in 2023.

 

Ortiz is almost 25 and Westburg is almost 24, and both are coming off good performances at AAA. Does Elias not believe in them for some reason? Signing a mediocre veteran to an expensive contract instead of giving them a shot seems to imply that this may be the case.

[HakunaSakata]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Frazier did has a nice WAR run from 2018-2021. 
 

But I don’t care.  Even if he gives us a 2.5 WAR this year, I will still hate the signing unless Ortiz and Westburg still gets most or all of a ML season in 2023.

 

If was Elias was so hell bent on signing a left-handed bat he should have just signed Belt (a much better hitter), then he could have shopped Mountcastle for pitching help.