Bowden claims Os have been aggressive

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, HakunaSakata said:

I call BS on this line in particular. I don't think Bowden has any definitive proof or inside information confirming that the Orioles aggressively pursued second and third tier starting pitching. The simple law of averages says they would have landed at least one of them if that was the case. Kyle Gibson isn't a second tier pitcher, he's a fourth tier pitcher. 

 

Orioles fans are probably disappointed the team didn’t land a bigger-name starting pitcher, but it wasn’t because of a lack of effort. Baltimore’s front office was aggressive in trying to sign second- and third-tier starting pitchers in free agency 

I doubt Bowden is just making something up while sitting at home. Your statement of a simple law of averages does not make a lot of sense when we are talking about free agency. 

I'm not going to argue how hard the Orioles tried, but I do believe they thought they could get a Bassitt-type but the market went higher then either Elias was allowed to go, or his risk aversion kicked in and he was unwilling to go higher to get those pitchers.

At the end of the day, whether they were "aggressive" or not, they failed on their objective to get a "2nd or 3rd" tier pitcher. I agree with you that Gibson is a Lyles type 4th starter type who eats innings. He's not the answer to their issue for a top flight starter.

I guess all I'm saying is I think the Orioles were involved with some of these names and perhaps were "aggressive" early on with offers before getting beaten by others. Personally, I would have done the Bassitt deal and I'm disappointed that they couldn't get that done.

Bottom line, Elias has failed so far to acquire that top starting pitcher this team needs as well as a true MOO. There's still time on the trade market to get something done, but he has not completed these kinds of trades before so we don't know how it will work out.

 

 

[Going Underground]

6 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

They could have been aggressive and still failed.
 

Do you think Elias isn’t trying his best? He’s just phoning it in and doesn’t care anymore? Because that’s how it feels from a lot of the posts here. As much as it sucks, Baltimore isn’t a place people want to live. I’m from Baltimore and love the city  and it’s teams with all my heart, but even I don’t live there anymore. If you want to forever be disappointed, be my guest, but I don’t think we should be expecting them to make any big splash in free agency until we at least make the playoffs. 

The Ravens don't have that problem. Money talks.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

The team failed per your expectations.  He failed fan expectations.  Elias seems to be a man of conviction.

Anybody who lives their lives without convictions and purpose is heavily influenced by their emotions when making decisions.  It's simply the nature of the human brain.  Guardrails are needed.  Elias seems to trust his guardrails.

If Elias doesn’t think he has failed, he’s a moron. By his own publicly stated goals, he has failed.

By his own admission that they offered deals and didn’t get things done, he has failed.

He literally tried to do something and it didn’t happen. That’s essentially the definition of failure.

Now, he may be ok with it and doesn’t mind how it turned out but he had undoubtedly failed by his own expectations, actions and words.

[RZNJ]

Don't buy the ownership pulled the rug out from him theory.   You can say he misread the market.   It's more simple to just say he didn't like the market.   I have no idea who they made actual concrete offers to and who they were or were not interested in.   They may have not been truly interested in Eovaldi.   It's all speculation.    Agressive is not always smart.    I love the deals Elias swung at the deadline last year.  Two good arms (the kind everyone wants us to draft) for a DH/1B rental, and 4 arms for a reliver we sold high on.   If Elias is waiting for a trade that suits him, I can be patient.   You guys are on your own.   lol

[Going Underground]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

If Elias doesn’t think he has failed, he’s a moron. By his own publicly stated goals, he has failed.

By his own admission that they offered deals and didn’t get things done, he has failed.

He literally tried to do something and it didn’t happen. That’s essentially the definition of failure.

Now, he may be ok with it and doesn’t mind how it turned out but he had undoubtedly failed by his own expectations, actions and words.

He did know the  free agent market was going to be aggressive and move fast.

Quote from November 11th:

 " I think this is going to be a very competitive market for players,” he said. “I think there’s a lot of teams out there that are looking to get better. People feel good about the health of the industry and I expect this will be a pretty active and maybe fast free agent market,” said Elias.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RarityFlaherty said:

I’m just saying, you are going to keep being disappointed if you expect big things in free agency. That’s not how this team will be built. We aren’t the Yankees. Once we make the playoffs, we will start to be a more attractive team for free agents and then maybe we will be able to make a decent signing or two. But I doubt we’ll ever seriously be in the running for any of the top talent in free agency because those guys mostly just want to go to the bigger market teams. 

This whole offseason, I have said that they should operate like Houston. FA deals for 3 years or less, sign your own and make trades that take on money.

Not signing a guy like Eovaldi, for example, for 3 years is poor. Not making trades (which can still happen) is poor. Not spending money to at least keep your own, is poor.

And to do all of that, coming off an 83 win season with a core filled with elite talent, is a joke and can’t be justified with any amount of intelligence, especially when you want the fan base to buy tickets and you have been an awful organization for the better part of the last 25 years.

And btw, if you were going to fail, as they be done, then just play the kids but you aren’t even doing that!  
 

Everything about this offseason is illogical and stupid. I defended them for most of the offseason because there were so many dumb contracts being given out but the complete failure to make this team much better and get people even more excited is absurd and no one should be ok with it.

They have spent money poorly, added very little to the team, blocked young guys, haven’t helped the log jam we will have very soon (If it’s not here already) and they have alienated a fan base that was ready for an exciting offseason because of what the team did and what the GM said.

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Bottom line is that no meaningful improvements have been made.

25 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

I think everyone needs to start getting used to this team not making a ton of noise in free agency. It feels like this team will be mostly built through the farm system. And I’m fine with that. For the sake of everyone’s health, ya’ll should start being fine with it too. 

The problem with this excuse is that the pitching has to come from somewhere and he refuses to draft high ceiling pitchers.

[RarityFlaherty]

3 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

The Ravens don't have that problem. Money talks.

The Ravens don’t really bring in big name free agents either. We usually just bring in old vets towards the end of their career and build the majority of the team through the draft. The only big free agent signing of a guy in his prime that I can even think of is this last offseason with Marcus Williams. 

[btdart20]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If Elias doesn’t think he has failed, he’s a moron. By his own publicly stated goals, he has failed.

By his own admission that they offered deals and didn’t get things done, he has failed.

He literally tried to do something and it didn’t happen. That’s essentially the definition of failure.

Now, he may be ok with it and doesn’t mind how it turned out but he had undoubtedly failed by his own expectations, actions and words.

Elias is clearly a man who trusts his guardrails/models/convictions.  And that's how you think a man of conviction lives his life and defines, then that's on you.  He'll take lessons learned (successes and failures) from the offseason and apply them going forward.  That's the nature of growth.

I'll be moving on now...

[RZNJ]

Mike Elias is a moron if he doesn't know that he has failed this offseason.   Oh!  The irony!

[Number5]

10 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

The Ravens don't have that problem. Money talks.

NFL salary cap and revenue sharing rules make this comparison apples and oranges.

[oriole]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Don't buy the ownership pulled the rug out from him theory.   You can say he misread the market.   It's more simple to just say he didn't like the market.   I have no idea who they made actual concrete offers to and who they were or were not interested in.   They may have not been truly interested in Eovaldi.   It's all speculation.    Agressive is not always smart.    I love the deals Elias swung at the deadline last year.  Two good arms (the kind everyone wants us to draft) for a DH/1B rental, and 4 arms for a reliver we sold high on.   If Elias is waiting for a trade that suits him, I can be patient.   You guys are on your own.   lol

There aren’t really that many holes to fill on the roster but yet for each one he has gone in the direction of financial conservatism. The only difference this year is that he is spending a little in free agency rather than the waiver wire. This tells me he is very conscious of the budget and has tried to delegate by spreading the money out to multiple okay at best options rather than one solid option. 
 

My understanding is that Elias was told that when the team becomes competitive, then the team will spend. They’re not spending and the team should be competitive. Elias is notoriously tight lipped but yet he publicly eluded to participating in the market. All signs point to ownership changed their mind rather than a misinterpretation by Elias. 

[RarityFlaherty]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And btw, if you were going to fail, as they be done, then just play the kids but you aren’t even doing that!  

This I agree with, but we really haven’t seen it play out yet. If Frazier is awful and guys like Westburg are ready, but we keep playing Frazier like we did with Odor last year, then I’ll be upset with the rest of you. It just feels silly to get bent out of shape because of what we have done in free agency so far. It still seems very likely that we see most of the kids who are ready play this year. 

[btdart20]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This whole offseason, I have said that they should operate like Houston.

I'm not sure if they are operating just like Houston did, but I think Elias took lessons learned from Houston's timeline.

2014 - 70-92

2015 - Houston turned the corner with a 86-76 - this is the O's 2022

2016 - Regression/adaption/learning curve - 84-78 - this is the floor/down side risk that Elias is hedging against.

2017 - 101-61...

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This whole offseason, I have said that they should operate like Houston. FA deals for 3 years or less, sign your own and make trades that take on money.

Not signing a guy like Eovaldi, for example, for 3 years is poor. Not making trades (which can still happen) is poor. Not spending money to at least keep your own, is poor.

And to do all of that, coming off an 83 win season with a core filled with elite talent, is a joke and can’t be justified with any amount of intelligence, especially when you want the fan base to buy tickets and you have been an awful organization for the better part of the last 25 years.

And btw, if you were going to fail, as they be done, then just play the kids but you aren’t even doing that!  
 

Everything about this offseason is illogical and stupid. I defended them for most of the offseason because there were so many dumb contracts being given out but the complete failure to make this team much better and get people even more excited is absurd and no one should be ok with it.

They have spent money poorly, added very little to the team, blocked young guys, haven’t helped the log jam we will have very soon (If it’s not here already) and they have alienated a fan base that was ready for an exciting offseason because of what the team did and what the GM said.

 

At the end of the day, it's hard to argue with anything you said here. 

So far, this offseason has been nothing but treading water at best. It appears he's hoping for big years from Adley and Gunnar as well as bounce back from Mountcastle and Hays. 

I remain hopeful there will be a "wow" trade coming up, but for now, this has been a poor offseason for Elias and the Orioles.