Jackson Holliday 2023

[scarey1999]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

Holliday is bigger than I realized. 

I think people look at his BBref, fangraphs page or at the back of his baseball card and see 6 ft 185 lbs and think, oh that’s not very big. But I’m telling you, having stood next to him on several occasions, he’s very well put together. No baby fat on this dude. He may not be a hulking behemoth like his father, but he’s also not your typical, wiry SS either.

I’d bet that listed weight of 185 is from his draft measurables and is no longer accurate. 

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Fangraph's piece on minor league shortstop defense.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/lets-watch-some-shortstop-prospects-play-defense/

Bonus Ortiz content.

 

Sort of disappointing on both fronts.  Maybe more disappointing on the Ortiz front, though I think the Holliday report should cool the jets of those who think he’s a sure thing to be on our OD roster.  Thanks for posting.

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Sort of disappointing on both fronts.  Maybe more disappointing on the Ortiz front, though I think the Holliday report should cool the jets of those who think he’s a sure thing to be on our OD roster.  Thanks for posting.

Watching the video compilation, I didn't see anyone that looks as good as Gunnar at SS.  

[Rbiggs2525]

Most 19 year olds are going to have things to iron out. He will get better with time and experience. He went from playing around 50-60 games in a year to 100 professional games.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

Most 19 year olds are going to have things to iron out. He will get better with time and experience. He went from playing around 50-60 games in a year to 100 professional games.

Well, sure.  Gunnar was way better defensively in 2022 than in 2021.  For me the issue is simply that Holliday may need more time to polish his defensive game.  And, that it’s not a foregone conclusion that Gunnar will move off SS for Holliday at some point.   

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Watching the video compilation, I didn't see anyone that looks as good as Gunnar at SS.  

The question is how will Gunnar look at SS in 2-3 years when he has gotten bigger?

I will still be surprised if Holliday isn’t the long term SS. 

[baltfan]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, sure.  Gunnar was way better defensively in 2022 than in 2021.  For me the issue is simply that Holliday may need more time to polish his defensive game.  And, that it’s not a foregone conclusion that Gunnar will move off SS for Holliday at some point.   

Holliday's arm seems far inferior.  However, Volpe's got a noodle arm and still is better rated in the field than Gunnar.  Perhaps we all are awed of the arm and miss some issues with range.  He does seem to struggle a bit going back on balls toward the outfield, e.g. 

Anthony Volpe Statcast, Visuals & Advanced Metrics | MLB.com | baseballsavant.com

Gunnar Henderson Statcast, Visuals & Advanced Metrics | MLB.com | baseballsavant.com

 

[scarey1999]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The question is how will Gunnar look at SS in 2-3 years when he has gotten bigger?

I will still be surprised if Holliday isn’t the long term SS. 

Gunnar is a much better athlete than Jackson.  I’m not talking baseball wise. I’m taking purely overall athlete.  Who’s to say Jackson won’t slow even more than Gunnar might?  End of day, we don’t know, but what we do know is what we have present day, and that is Gunnar’s defensive toolbox at SS is much stronger than Jackson’s. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m thrilled if Jackson overtakes Gunnar one day defensively and is the long term SS. That means we have one hell of a defensive SS, outside of what he will do with the bat. 

[Just Regular]

It is an old fashioned differentiator, but Batting Average is my main thing for anticipating overall production differences between Gunnar and Holliday.

Of course hope both put the All-Star Game starting spots on lock by '25.

Holliday batting titles, Gunnar HR titles - nobody gets Triple Crown.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

It is an old fashioned differentiator, but Batting Average is my main thing for anticipating overall production differences between Gunnar and Holliday.

Of course hope both put the All-Star Game starting spots on lock by '25.

Holliday batting titles, Gunnar HR titles - nobody gets Triple Crown.

I think Holliday's minor league batting average isn't a useful tool to gauge future success.

He hits a ton of ground balls that aren't going to be hits in the majors.

[Just Regular]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think Holliday's minor league batting average isn't a useful tool to gauge future success.

He hits a ton of ground balls that aren't going to be hits in the majors.

What do you think Elias envisioned as his carrying tool making him a 1-1 then?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

What do you think Elias envisioned as his carrying tool making him a 1-1 then?

I think he's going to adapt his launch angle for the majors and his offense will be above average.

I don't see him as a Luis Arraez type.

[baltfan]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he's going to adapt his launch angle for the majors and his offense will be above average.

I don't see him as a Luis Arraez type.

Well he has hit more homers did Arraez hit in 369 games in the minors, so that’s probably a good bet.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Well he has hit more homers did Arraez hit in 369 games in the minors, so that’s probably a good bet.  

Sigh...

[scarey1999]

7 hours ago, scarey1999 said:

Gunnar is a much better athlete than Jackson.  I’m not talking baseball wise. I’m taking purely overall athlete.  Who’s to say Jackson won’t slow even more than Gunnar might?  End of day, we don’t know, but what we do know is what we have present day, and that is Gunnar’s defensive toolbox at SS is much stronger than Jackson’s. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m thrilled if Jackson overtakes Gunnar one day defensively and is the long term SS. That means we have one hell of a defensive SS, outside of what he will do with the bat. 

No way possible Jackson makes that same play Gunnar just made this year, next or 5 years from now, with that incredible double play catching that pop up the. throwing out a very fast Corbin Carroll. 

Gunnar’s elite athleticism was on full display on that play. Wow.