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2023 Ongoing Lineup Thread

Ripken

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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2 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I think the point in bringing up McKenna was that he can be sent down when Mullins is ready and Mateo cannot. Clearly, they are not ready to lose Mateo from the organization just yet, which they almost certainly will if they try to get him through waivers. And it’s only 26 more days until they get a couple extra roster spots to play with, so it makes sense not to lose a player if you don’t have to, regardless of how most posters here view Mateo and his future contributions. If Mateo can cover CF as a backup, it greatly lessens or downright eliminates the need for McKenna. 
 

Half this board was ready to dump Mountcastle a few weeks ago, so I’m content to let the front office decide when it’s time to cut bait with Mateo. 

I guess it eliminates the need for McKenna if the idea is to downgrade from the backup CF role. McKenna hits better and I have to assume is gonna be a better CF. This is the kind of thing you do when a guy is signed long term and you are trying to make it work. It’s just foolish to continue blocking Ortiz for a guy who flat out can’t hit. 
 

As for Mountcastle, I don’t recall anyone saying cut him loose. Most were saying why bring him up to Baltimore when he wasn’t even hitting at Norfolk. My biggest problem with Mountcastle remains Hyder’s usage of him, though that has improved since he returned. He should not be an every day player, batting in the middle of the lineup unless he’s on a streak. Ordinarily, he should be quasi-platooned and batting in the 6-7 range. 

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Moose Milligan
Moose Milligan

I've griped about the lineup a few times this year only to have the Orioles come out and put up a good amount of runs. But I am not trying for a reverse lock here when I say that this is a dog***

Fiver6565
Fiver6565

LOL. Don’t let 64-41 stop you guys from criticizing every single lineup. If Mateo batting ninth is our biggest issue we’re in great shape. 

Frobby
Frobby

Kinda hoping that’s our starting lineup in 2024, if not sooner.  

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This is damning with faint praise but McKenna is a better hitter than Mateo.   

Yeah it’s not a high bar to clear. Maybe they think releasing him would cause problems in the clubhouse. There doesn’t seem to be any performance reason to keep him around. 

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Fiver6565 Veteran All-Star

Fiver6565

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2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I guess it eliminates the need for McKenna if the idea is to downgrade from the backup CF role. McKenna hits better and I have to assume is gonna be a better CF. This is the kind of thing you do when a guy is signed long term and you are trying to make it work. It’s just foolish to continue blocking Ortiz for a guy who flat out can’t hit. 
 

As for Mountcastle, I don’t recall anyone saying cut him loose. Most were saying why bring him up to Baltimore when he wasn’t even hitting at Norfolk. My biggest problem with Mountcastle remains Hyder’s usage of him, though that has improved since he returned. He should not be an every day player, batting in the middle of the lineup unless he’s on a streak. Ordinarily, he should be quasi-platooned and batting in the 6-7 range. 

If you can have a backup SS and CF in one person, I don’t see any reason not too. McKenna has been a better bat but neither one of them will play all that much once Ced is back, so why not have the more versatile guy here?

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Just now, Fiver6565 said:

If you can have a backup SS and CF in one person, I don’t see any reason not too. McKenna has been a better bat but neither one of them will play all that much once Ced is back, so why not have the more versatile guy here?

Because a backup SS isn’t very important if you already have Henderson and Ortiz on the team. Plus, Westburg and Urias being able to fill in when needed. 
 

When Ced is back we’d only have a need for either when a LH pitcher starts, and we need someone in CF or LF. McKenna is an easy choice for me in that role. 

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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5 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Yeah it’s not a high bar to clear. Maybe they think releasing him would cause problems in the clubhouse. There doesn’t seem to be any performance reason to keep him around. 

I don’t see it on the bench, after runs score, homers hit.   Santander seems like a real “glue guy”.   Everyone seems to be having fun except Mateo.  I think he’s sensitive and proud and it’s probably eating him up inside going from where he was in April to where he is now.  They just demoted, arguably, their best starter in the first half after 3 bad starts.  If they aren’t worried how that affects the clubhouse I can’t see DFA a hitter with a sub .600 OPS who hasn’t been making the tough plays in the field is going to be a problem.

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Bahama O's Fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Bahama O's Fan

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So let's do a quick roster spot challenge: McKenna vs. Mateo, who is more valuable? (assuming Mateo can play CF)

Well, when everyone is back, we will have no SS of people that can play CF and SS, so mute point. 

Hitting: Mateo has a career .632 OPS and McKenna has .612

WAR: Mateo career 4.0 and McKenna 0.1; this season-Mateo 0.5 and McKenna 0.1

Defense: One will be able to play the IF and OF; one, just the OF. Mateo has been above average at SS; even if not gold glove caliber this season. Go look at where he ranks in dWAR among SS, about 7th or 8th. 

Speed: Mateo over McKenna. I would hate to be a pitcher with him on base in a pinch running situation

Veterinasity: Once again Mateo gets the edge. 

Options: McKenna can be sent down and saved. Mateo would have to be let go completely

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don’t see it on the bench, after runs score, homers hit.   Santander seems like a real “glue guy”.   Everyone seems to be having fun except Mateo.  I think he’s sensitive and proud and it’s probably eating him up inside going from where he was in April to where he is now.  They just demoted, arguably, their best starter in the first half after 3 bad starts.  If they aren’t worried how that affects the clubhouse I can’t see DFA a hitter with a sub .600 OPS who hasn’t been making the tough plays in the field is going to be a problem.

Yeah this is all true. I got nothing for why he’s still here. He shouldn’t be. 

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Orioles0615 Hangout Grand Counsel

Orioles0615

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1 hour ago, Fiver6565 said:

Do you really think the thought process for a playoff lineup and a Sunday day game after night game lineup are even remotely similar?  I’m not sure what the point of a statement like this is. 

Considering Hyde has never managed a playoff game who knows what he does

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

Posted
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2 hours ago, waroriole said:

I don’t know what McKenna has to do with it. I get that they like Mateo but there’s no justification for it. He can’t hit. And his defense isn’t elite, other than last year. 

They are auditioning Mateo for McKenna's role. When Mullins comes back, they need one of them to be the backup OF vs LHP. If Mateo can play CF, they can option McKenna. If not, they would need to DFA Mateo. If Mateo can back up OF, he can stay at least until Hicks comes back, maybe longer when rosters expand. 

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

So let's do a quick roster spot challenge: McKenna vs. Mateo, who is more valuable? (assuming Mateo can play CF)

Well, when everyone is back, we will have no SS of people that can play CF and SS, so mute point. 

Hitting: Mateo has a career .632 OPS and McKenna has .612

WAR: Mateo career 4.0 and McKenna 0.1; this season-Mateo 0.5 and McKenna 0.1

Defense: One will be able to play the IF and OF; one, just the OF. Mateo has been above average at SS; even if not gold glove caliber this season. Go look at where he ranks in dWAR among SS, about 7th or 8th. 

Speed: Mateo over McKenna. I would hate to be a pitcher with him on base in a pinch running situation

Veterinasity: Once again Mateo gets the edge. 

Options: McKenna can be sent down and saved. Mateo would have to be let go completely

Exactly. There are valid arguments for Ortiz over Mateo but that isnt the question at the moment. Now the last guys on the roster are McKenna and Mateo, and if Mateo can play OF he is the clear choice.

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