Second half rotation

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm just thrilled that we don't have to worry about watching Tyler Wilson/Asher Wojo types anymore.  

I'm also trying not to get my hopes too high about the Irvin resurgence but he looks very different since he's been back from AAA.  

I was worried the Orioles starting rotation would be the weak link to this year's team, but they've been decent enough. That's with Grayson Rodriguez being terrible and Means likely not back until 2024.

With the Orioles having Bradish, Kremer and Wells as younger inexperienced starters Elias needs to make a trade for a veteran starter. Ideally a TOR type pitcher to anchor the rotation in September and the postseason. Chances are one of them at least will deal with a dead arm from not pitching through a 162 game season.

None of the above three have pitched over 125 innings in a season before.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I was worried the Orioles starting rotation would be the weak link to this year's team, but they've been decent enough. That's with Grayson Rodriguez being terrible and Means likely not back until 2024.

With the Orioles having Bradish, Kremer and Wells as younger inexperienced starters Elias needs to make a trade for a veteran starter. Ideally a TOR type pitcher to anchor the rotation in September and the postseason. Chances are one of them at least will deal with a dead arm from not pitching through a 162 game season.

None of the above three have pitched over 125 innings in a season before.

I'd like a TOR starter, I'm just not sure if he pulls the trigger on one.  

Elias seems...methodical.  And calculated.  And I don't know he's going to be rushed into a big decision like trading good prospect capital for a TOR type at the deadline when the clock is ticking.  I could be wrong, probably am.

In other words, I don't see him making a big move when there's a deadline involved.  

I think what's more realistic is that he rides with this group of starters and gets some bullpen pieces.  If we're looking at the staff, the middle relief is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed.  I agree that the rotation could use a #1 type but I think being able to bridge to Cano/Coulombe/Bautista is the biggest issue and will continue to be as the season goes on.  And it's a problem that I don't think can be fixed from our system as guys like Vespi continue to fail to impress.   If Elias has another Cano up his sleeve in the form of Wandisson Charles, now would be a good time to play that card.  But as it stands, I'm not so sure we have good relief options in the system.

I also agree that these guys haven't thrown a lot of innings before but I think he runs that risk.   To @Frobby's point, our guys have been mostly healthy this year and that's something that should be applauded.  I'm not sure what Elias and SigBot have done in regards to conditioning and preparation to keep these guys off the IL or if it's just dumb luck.

[now]

29 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm just thrilled that we don't have to worry about watching Tyler Wilson/Asher Wojo types anymore.  

I'm also trying not to get my hopes too high about the Irvin resurgence but he looks very different since he's been back from AAA.  

Totally agree on the first point. As for Irvin, he looks better and is getting better results (thx Mullins!), but I can't help but see the shadow of Zac Lowther and Alex Wells. Wonder how @Tony-OH would compare their stuff. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'd like a TOR starter, I'm just not sure if he pulls the trigger on one.  

Elias seems...methodical.  And calculated.  And I don't know he's going to be rushed into a big decision like trading good prospect capital for a TOR type at the deadline when the clock is ticking.  I could be wrong, probably am.

In other words, I don't see him making a big move when there's a deadline involved.  

I think what's more realistic is that he rides with this group of starters and gets some bullpen pieces.  If we're looking at the staff, the middle relief is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed.  I agree that the rotation could use a #1 type but I think being able to bridge to Cano/Coulombe/Bautista is the biggest issue and will continue to be as the season goes on.  And it's a problem that I don't think can be fixed from our system as guys like Vespi continue to fail to impress.   If Elias has another Cano up his sleeve in the form of Wandisson Charles, now would be a good time to play that card.  But as it stands, I'm not so sure we have good relief options in the system.

I also agree that these guys haven't thrown a lot of innings before but I think he runs that risk.   To @Frobby's point, our guys have been mostly healthy this year and that's something that should be applauded.  I'm not sure what Elias and SigBot have done in regards to conditioning and preparation to keep these guys off the IL or if it's just dumb luck.

On my shopping list I want a TOR starter and an elite bullpen arm to help bridge the gap between the starters and Cano/Bautista. There's a case to be made a really good bullpen arm would help more than a starting pitcher.

I agree on Elias not likely pulling the trigger on a trade for TOR starter, but it would be a nice surprise. Also we don't what payroll limits Elias is working under. It could be Elias would make a trade for a #1 pitcher, but ownership doesn't want to pickup the contract of said player.

[OriolesMagic83]

I would like to have a #1 starter as much as anyone, but I don't think there are any available.  I would be happy to add another #2/3 starter like Wells/Bradish.  I was looking thru stats today and thought it would be cool to check how many complete games have been thrown this year.  The majority of ML teams don't have a single complete game.  I'll take 3 #2/3 starters and a great bullpen over a #1 starter and lesser 2nd and 3rd starters and bullpen.  The O's can't afford a #1 starter not pitching and paying him $30-40 million/yr, unlike the Yankees, Mets and Dodgers.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

4 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I would like to have a #1 starter as much as anyone, but I don't think there are any available.  I would be happy to add another #2/3 starter like Wells/Bradish.  I was looking thru stats today and thought it would be cool to check how many complete games have been thrown this year.  The majority of ML teams don't have a single complete game.  I'll take 3 #2/3 starters and a great bullpen over a #1 starter and lesser 2nd and 3rd starters and bullpen.  The O's can't afford a #1 starter not pitching and paying him $30-40 million/yr, unlike the Yankees, Mets and Dodgers.

My definition of TOR starter is probably more a of really good #2 (for Elias to target in a trade) and that's good enough for me. I agree that a true #1 is unlikely available or the asking price in prospects will be too high for Elias' comfort.

What I don't want is trading for a Kyle Gibson type pitcher. I want a good #2/3 pitcher otherwise add a good bullpen piece instead.

Edited July 9, 2023 by OsFanSinceThe80s

[Baltimorecuse]

20 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

My definition of TOR starter is probably more a of really good #2 (for Elias to target in a trade) and that's good enough for me. I agree that a true #1 is unlikely available or the asking price in prospects will be too high for Elias' comfort.

What I don't want is trading for a Kyle Gibson type pitcher. I want a good #2/3 pitcher otherwise add a good bullpen piece instead.

You don't want to see another rag arm with no heater.  We've had an army of them for two decades.  

[Moose Milligan]

Rodriguez coming up and producing would be tremendous.  Can't bank on that, but he'll have his shot.  

If he shows significant improvement, the probability of Elias trading for a starter decreases even more.

Not sure who gets bumped out of the rotation for him at the moment though.  

[Baltimorecuse]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Rodriguez coming up and producing would be tremendous.  Can't bank on that, but he'll have his shot.  

If he shows significant improvement, the probability of Elias trading for a starter decreases even more.

Not sure who gets bumped out of the rotation for him at the moment though.  

I think Gibson's start today will be really important for his future.  I'm thinking long reliever.  If he pitches well today he'd definitely get another start.  

[PsychoBird68]

We definitely need to acquire at least a #2 or #3 starter to eat some innings because Wells and Rodriguez has already thrown more innings than last year so they'll need moved to the pen to limit innings....middle relief solved.... Also Kremer and Bradish will likely need to skip a start or two so they'll be fresh for October and not well over their previous years innings total...Gibson and Irving need to stay in the rotation to eat innings.... We also need at least one more starter to get us to September and then we can ramp Wells and Rodriguez pitch count back up to get them ready to start in the playoffs if needed

[Billy F-Face3]

Wells could always strengthen the bullpen if they want to keep his innings down and manage his innings. 

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Wells could always strengthen the bullpen if they want to keep his innings down and manage his innings. 

Watching Wells amazing year unfold, I have still had that thought too.   Its just the chicken/egg of endurance, plus the fun visual of him alongside Felix and Cano, plus him being the only one of the Good 3 to have done that role.

Here's how Wells, Kremer and Bradish sit in full season workloads as best I can tell from B-Ref telescoping back to college stats since their age 20 seasons:

Wells, T.: 65, 139, 89, 119, 0, 0*, 57, 103        (age 20 season was 2015)

Kremer: 114, 80, 131, 132, 18*, 116, 134          (2016)

Bradish: 106, 101, 101, 0*, 100, 145                 (2017)

2021-2022 merged, its a ~250-160 deficit for 68.     Tough one for Hyde, because the Wells interviews where he talks about having expectations for himself to go 7, 8, etc sound great.    He looks the part of 190 inning horse like Gibson.

None of the actual decisions have to occur until we know the August 2 pitcher personnel.

 

[sportsfan8703]

If we trade for Giolito, then I think you groom Grayson for the 7th inning role starting in August. 
 

Elias could hit the straight flush here. We have the SP depth to win the division. Giolito won’t cost us an untouchable. We get a seasoned TOR SP to match up with Cole, Mclahanon, Gausman, Lopez, Valdez, in game 1. Grayson can learn to dominate in short stints. 

[pdiddy]

I’m optimistic about Grayson - the talent is there and he appears to have been straightened out some since his demotion. It remains to be seen how that translates from AAA to ML hitters but this team seems confident it it’s ability to tweak pitching. 
 

There’s also been a lot said about the approach to handling business (Oriole Way 2.0) of the kids coming up from the minors. Being humbled some by being demoted but having that mindset may lead to great things.

[dystopia]

14 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

So….

Bradish

Kremer

Rodriguez 

Irvin

Wells

 

That’s right, no Gibson.

Gibson is a mediocre pitcher who was playing over his head and has now come back to earth. He’ll straighten it out. He eats innings so he’s not going anywhere.