This triple by Gunnar

[Sports Guy]

Just now, eddie83 said:

So Ogden played there his whole career? Taking long term here. 

No I know. Just saying that if Holliday is up mid season next year, it doesn’t automatically mean he goes immediately to SS. A mid season call up could have him playing multiple spots.

[eddie83]

58 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I don’t believe that it is likely that they did either. I was speaking to the fact that the people who are most vested in his professional success beyond him, would be very happy with a career that produced multiple all star game appearances even if it was not at the position that they most desired/envisioned for him. Semien after all signed a 175 million dollar contract “to only play 2B”.

I was being sarcastic. I’m sure they talked positions. I’m sure they viewed him as a SS which is why they took him. 

[Can_of_corn]

I think if Camp Holliday had an issue with Jackson playing Second he would not be logging time at Second in the minors.

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

If they told him that they believed he could be the starting SS for the team one day, I could believe that.  If they promised him they would never move him to another position or that he was guaranteed the position some day I would have a good laugh.  The kid and his father have been in and around the game all of their lives.   They get it.   

They aren’t picking him 1-1 if they didn’t view him as a SS. His current top prospect status views him as a SS. 
 

Promised in writing? No. Opportunity, yes?  He has lived up to his part of the bargain. 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

They aren’t picking him 1-1 if they didn’t view him as a SS. His current top prospect status views him as a SS. 
 

Promised in writing? No. Opportunity, yes?  He has lived up to his part of the bargain. 

They viewed him as a SS.  Agreed.  He’ll have the opportunity to prove he’s the best man for the job.  Agreed.   It doesn’t mean he is the best man for the job or that he’ll get that job.  PERIOD.

[Moose Milligan]

This thread is dildos. 

[Moose Milligan]

Outstanding hustle on that triple last night, anyway. 

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

But that’s kind of my point I guess. I think they view Gunnar as a third baseman long term because of his size.

Even if Gunnar is a better SS in 2024, when Holliday is here, it doesn’t mean he will be better in 2025 and beyond.

I think they believe Holliday is an upper level SS and that gives them the best chance. That is why I believe they drafted him.

So unless they misread that and he ends up not being a good defensive SS, that’s where he will be.

What if they just misread how good of a shortstop Gunnar would turn out to be and how long he can stay the better defensive SS of the two?  In other words, no misread on Holliday, just an underestimation (or conservative estimation) of how good Gunnar would be?

Now, you may be right that the O’s will decide Holliday is likely to be the better defensive SS long term so it’s better to settle him in there sooner rather than later.   That logic makes plenty of sense.  What doesn’t make sense is, “we drafted this guy 1:1 as a shortstop and therefore he must play shortstop.”

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

What if they just misread how good of a shortstop Gunnar would turn out to be and how long he can stay the better defensive SS of the two?  In other words, no misread on Holliday, just an underestimation (or conservative estimation) of how good Gunnar would be?

Now, you may be right that the O’s will decide Holliday is likely to be the better defensive SS long term so it’s better to settle him in there sooner rather than later.   That logic makes plenty of sense.  What doesn’t make sense is, “we drafted this guy 1:1 as a shortstop and therefore he must play shortstop.”

Who said that? He is currently the number 1 prospect in the sport. If he couldn’t play SS at the MLB level is he the top prospect in the game? The answer is no. He was picked 1-1 because he was viewed as a SS. He has stuck there. 
 

If his skill set was a better fit for second base we would already know that and his value would not be the same. 

[eddie83]

39 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

They viewed him as a SS.  Agreed.  He’ll have the opportunity to prove he’s the best man for the job.  Agreed.   It doesn’t mean he is the best man for the job or that he’ll get that job.  PERIOD.

Who plays 3B in the scenario of Holliday at second and Gunnar at SS? 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What if they just misread how good of a shortstop Gunnar would turn out to be and how long he can stay the better defensive SS of the two?  In other words, no misread on Holliday, just an underestimation (or conservative estimation) of how good Gunnar would be?

Now, you may be right that the O’s will decide Holliday is likely to be the better defensive SS long term so it’s better to settle him in there sooner rather than later.   That logic makes plenty of sense.  What doesn’t make sense is, “we drafted this guy 1:1 as a shortstop and therefore he must play shortstop.”

I think people are overlooking the idea that the reason they took him was because he can play SS.

If they were unsure, they probably don’t take him. They probably take Jones.

Elias usually tells us what he is thinking. He isnt one to do a lot of “GM speak”.

He told us that he drafted him because he’s a SS and he did that when Gunnar was showing in the minors that he could handle SS in the majors.

I think Elias has already told us his intentions by his actions.

Now, could they move Holliday around some because they value flexibility?  Maybe. I don’t see what purpose that would serve but they could.

But I would bet on him being the SS on a regular basis starting OD 2025. I think he is up before then but I think it’s possible they move him around in 2024.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

I mean, read what Law wrote about Holliday. He is a “true SS”.  It’s not like we are talking about playing a subpar player over there just because of draft status. 
 

He was taken as a SS, the team loves him as a SS, scouts feel he is a SS and no one even remotely questions it.

So yea, if they misread him and he was struggling over there, maybe a move happens. So far, by all indications, they have been spot on with their assessment of him and I don’t see them changing that.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

Who plays 3B in the scenario of Holliday at second and Gunnar at SS? 

Westburg, most likely.   Could be Westburg 2B and Holliday 3B?   Could be.  All kinds of possibilities.  

[eddie83]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I mean, read what Law wrote about Holliday. He is a “true SS”.  It’s not like we are talking about playing a subpar player over there just because of draft status. 
 

He was taken as a SS, the team loves him as a SS, scouts feel he is a SS and no one even remotely questions it.

So yea, if they misread him and he was struggling over there, maybe a move happens. So far, by all indications, they have been spot on with their assessment of him and I don’t see them changing that.

Yep. Said well.  

[eddie83]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Westburg, most likely.   Could be Westburg 2B and Holliday 3B?   Could be.  All kinds of possibilities.  

Well we can revisit this in 2025.