Tender Day Deadline

[Aristotelian]

49 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Mateo could be too.

Maybe Webb?

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Maybe Webb?

I'm perfectly fine using the Tate savings to tender Webb. I know it's a lot of guys without options, but we are severely lacking in decent RH relievers. 

[forphase1]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

What mental lapses? The guy dropped one ball. He also more than made up for that game during the course of the season. 

There were more than just that one incident, though of course that one stands out.  We had game threads talking about it when they happened if I recall correctly.  Sure, the dropped ball was the main one, but there are other times he...not sure what words to use, zones out/has mental errors.  As @Tony-OHstated in the thread below, "As I've said a few times, McKenna was known for "mental errors" in the minors. The dropped fly ball yesterday was certainly nothing more than a mental error because it was such an easy catch. Saying that, I'm not going to say that McKenna is not a good defensive outfielder because he is for the most part. In the past, after he's had these mental lapses, he's been able to rebound with focus for awhile. Hopefully we won't see this again for a long time. "

Anyway, I'm not a fan of his and would like to see him replaced on the roster, especially since we no longer have the flexibility to send him to the minors.  All that said if I HAD to chose between a roster spot for him or for say Mateo, I pick McKenna (I know not the same position, etc).  

 

 

[forphase1]

16 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I see your point, but our prospects/roster is heavy with left-handed hitters.  I agree he's not an ideal guy, but I think he fits a role on this team.  I'm thinking they will wind up moving some guys and having him as depth at a cheap price is OK.   At his salary, you could cut him and send him down to AAA if he clears waivers at very little cost. 

Just to be clear...if he's not tendered, I'm not losing sleep over it.  

I'm not really losing sleep over it either.  I'd just rather his playing time go to one of the younger guys with more talent, those who could be around for a while, mainly Cowser.  McKenna being on the team or not being on the team isn't a make it or break it type move, but what else are we going to discuss on 11/17?    

[MurphDogg]

I don't understand why anyone would want to non-tender Tate, unless you think he isn't structurally sound. He was a perfectly cromulent reliever in 2021 and 2022, will be making under $2M, and has options left if you are in a roster crunch.

I know the bullpen was decent last year without him, but we still gave 23 and 2/3rds innings to Keegan Akin (6.85 ERA), 12 innings to Jorge Lopez (5.25 ERA), 9 innings to Logan Gillaspie (6.00 ERA) and a handful of innings to other sub-replacement level pitchers.

$1.5M is not too much to pay for a known quantity as a middle reliever, especially one with options remaining.

I feel the same way with Akin, he has been successful in the past and has options remaining. The Orioles aren't so destitute that they can't afford to spend a little bit more than the league minimum on players who may be your 6th to 10th best relievers. If they aren't among the 8 best, then send them down to AAA. There isn't a 40-man roster crunch, but if there is eventually, they can be non-tendered and their insurance value beats the alternative to giving innings to AAAA guys who haven't had the big league success that Tate and Akin have had.

It also isn't like there are a bunch of prospects banging down the door at AAA who look like potential bullpen studs for the upcoming season like Bautista in 2021. None of the pitchers among our top 30 prospects are at the point where it makes sense to consider them as MLB bullpen options in 2024, although several will likely end up in the bullpen eventually.

Edited November 17, 2023 by MurphDogg

[Aristotelian]

36 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm perfectly fine using the Tate savings to tender Webb. I know it's a lot of guys without options, but we are severely lacking in decent RH relievers. 

My question is whether Webb qualifies as decent. I think he probably does but I'm not sure.

[clapdiddy]

2 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I don't understand why anyone would want to non-tender Tate, unless you think he isn't structurally sound. He was a perfectly cromulent reliever in 2021 and 2022, will be making under $2M, and has options left if you are in a roster crunch.

I know the bullpen was decent last year without him, but we still gave 23 and 2/3rds innings to Keegan Akin (6.85 ERA), 12 innings to Jorge Lopez (5.25 ERA), 9 innings to Logan Gillaspie (6.00 ERA) and a handful of innings to other sub-replacement level pitchers.

$1.5M is not too much to pay for a known quantity as a middle reliever, especially one with options remaining.

I feel the same way with Akin, he has been successful in the past and has options remaining. The Orioles aren't so destitute that they can't afford to spend a little bit more than the league minimum on players who may be your 6th to 8th best relievers. Nor is there a 40-man roster crunch.

It also isn't like there are a bunch of prospects banging down the door at AAA who look like potential bullpen studs for the upcoming season like Bautista in 2021. None of the pitchers among our top 30 prospects are at the point where it makes sense to consider them as MLB bullpen options in 2024, although several will likely end up in the bullpen eventually.

Agreed.   The options these guys have are the main reason to hold onto them.  And...if you have to create roster space, they could be attractive in a trade for a "lottery ticket" type prospect .   

[ScGO's]

2 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Here are the seventeen candidates and projected raises

Anthony Santander: $7.4 million to $12.7 million
Danny Coulombe: $1 million to $2.2 million
John Means: $2.975 million to $5.93 million
Ryan O’Hearn: $1.4 million to $3 million
Cedric Mullins: $4.1 million to $6.4 million
Austin Hays: $3.2 million to $6.1 million
Dillon Tate: $1.5 million to $1.5 million
Jorge Mateo: $2 million to $2.9 million
Ryan Mountcastle: $738,400 to $4.2 million
Cionel Pérez: $732,300 to $1.3 million
Cole Irvin: $737,600 to $1.8 million
Keegan Akin: $731,100 to $800,000
Jacob Webb: $720,000 to $1.2 million
Ramón Urías: $734,700 to $2 million
Tyler Wells: $732,400 to $2.3 million
Ryan McKenna: $725,800 to $740,000
Sam Hilliard: $750,000 to $1.1 million

Elias takes me as someone who likes to collect value. No one on this list is really overpaid. If Tate is FUBAR, then he probably gets cut. I think he wheels and deals have of these guys in trade either as add ons to bigger trades or for lottery tickets.

When you look at what people are spending on Free Agency, then you look at these projected salaries, even guys like McKenna and Akin could be a steal to another ball club look for a low risk/high reward deal, especially when you see what their potential equivalents would cost through Free Agency

[jamalshw]

I truly wonder if we see any trades today ahead of the deadline for bubble guys. Nothing that would really move the needle, but with Elias liking to maximize value as much as possible, I think he'd prefer to deal a guy for a PTNL over just non-tendering him. 

[sportsfan8703]

I don’t see a point in keeping Akin other than that he’s left handed, breathing, and has an option for next year. He got hit hard last year. 

Tate is interesting because he elected not to have surgery, so who knows if he’s even healthy. He does have an option too. His $2 million in salary would be even more of a risk that giving Givens $3 million last offseason. But we do need RH relief options. If he’s tendered, it’s gotta be because they feel like he’s healthy. 

[interloper]

 

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

I don't understand why anyone would want to non-tender Tate, unless you think he isn't structurally sound. He was a perfectly cromulent reliever in 2021 and 2022, will be making under $2M, and has options left if you are in a roster crunch.

I know the bullpen was decent last year without him, but we still gave 23 and 2/3rds innings to Keegan Akin (6.85 ERA), 12 innings to Jorge Lopez (5.25 ERA), 9 innings to Logan Gillaspie (6.00 ERA) and a handful of innings to other sub-replacement level pitchers.

$1.5M is not too much to pay for a known quantity as a middle reliever, especially one with options remaining.

I feel the same way with Akin, he has been successful in the past and has options remaining. The Orioles aren't so destitute that they can't afford to spend a little bit more than the league minimum on players who may be your 6th to 10th best relievers. If they aren't among the 8 best, then send them down to AAA. There isn't a 40-man roster crunch, but if there is eventually, they can be non-tendered and their insurance value beats the alternative to giving innings to AAAA guys who haven't had the big league success that Tate and Akin have had.

It also isn't like there are a bunch of prospects banging down the door at AAA who look like potential bullpen studs for the upcoming season like Bautista in 2021. None of the pitchers among our top 30 prospects are at the point where it makes sense to consider them as MLB bullpen options in 2024, although several will likely end up in the bullpen eventually.

Is there any reason to believe Tate’s arm is sound?  He strained his forearm last November, never had surgery, and was unable to pitch effectively in the minors at any point.  I guess the Orioles opinión on the matter comes today.  
 

Cromulent?   Really?  lol

Edited November 17, 2023 by RZNJ

[Just Regular]

I'll park this one here as it could be the offseason's first big splash in the coming hours.     I assume the cash-rich teams are more the interested parties, but it will be an interesting press conference for Matt Arnold and/or new manager Pat Murphy if it happens.     Woodruff's path to maybe returning value at ~1/12 for 2024 is as an October contributor, if his Club is strong enough to make the tournament without him.     He almost certainly will be inefficient at regular season $$$/WAR.

I believe the Stearns-Counsell-Yelich Brewers are over, and think it is an interesting call if they hold Burnes or use him to restock for the Chourio generation.

 

[Sports Guy]

 Brewers are going to trade Burnes and Williams imo.

[btdart20]

4 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

My question is whether Webb qualifies as decent. I think he probably does but I'm not sure.

I think he's solid enough.  95+ MPH FB, seems to manage the barrel% well, got unlucky with the HRs last year.  All of his pitches has something to like (at least per Savant).  I'd take the chance on him and improving his BB%.