Jackson Holliday 2024

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, Paul in Virginia said:

 

 

I think this is the wrong thread for this post…

[OnlyOneOriole]

18 hours ago, Paul in Virginia said:

 

 

Really doesn't look as though he has changed anything has he?  Still taking the high step.  And I still am not a big fan of his big step towards first base instead of towards the pitcher.  Plus  his swing and his first instinct is to try and pull everything.

But a home run is a home run.  Good job. 

Edited Tuesday at 19:30 by OnlyOneOriole

[now]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I think this is the wrong thread for this post…

Still trying to keep that dang helmet from falling off...

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think this is the wrong thread for this post…

Yeah, we only post negative stuff about Holliday  in this thread.  Put this crap in the minor league thread 

[Sports Guy]

Something to watch for. It’s easy to parse these videos out to show one at bats or a few good at bats..but is he consistently doing this? 

[RZNJ]

Pulling out is ok on inner half stuff.  The catcher wanted the ball outside corner and the pitcher missed inside.  When I see video of Holliday driving a ball on the outside corner anywhere then I’ll be impressed.    

[RZNJ]

Currently, 52nd in batting average in the International League.  Yeah, BA isn’t the most important thing but try wrapping your head around that one.

[OnlyOneOriole]

14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Pulling out is ok on inner half stuff.  The catcher wanted the ball outside corner and the pitcher missed inside.  When I see video of Holliday driving a ball on the outside corner anywhere then I’ll be impressed.    

Agree.

[OnlyOneOriole]

He looks a little taller and more filled out to me as well since last year.

[RZNJ]

On 4/24/2024 at 9:29 AM, RZNJ said:

 

Maybe not so good that his front hip is almost in the first base dugout and he has to get fully extended just to reach a ball on the outside corner.

This is against a LHP so I’ll cut him some slack but I believe he’s also in this position against RHP.   Look where his butt is and look how far he has to reach, off balance, just to get the end of his bat to reach the outside corner.

The problem, as I see it, and @OnlyOneOriole has touched on, is he does the leg lift and his first move is to open that hip instead of staying closed towards the pitcher.  The hip and butt are out.  He can still do damage on inner half stuff but he loses all his leverage when he has to reach for stuff on the outer half and he’s almost totally vulnerable to outside corner.   

Edited Tuesday at 19:44 by RZNJ

[OnlyOneOriole]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This is against a LHP so I’ll cut him some slack but I believe he’s also in this position against RHP.   Look where his butt is and look how far he has to reach, off balance, just to get the end of his bat to reach the outside corner.

The problem, as I see it, and @OnlyOneOriole has touched on, is hoe does the leg lift and his first move is to open that hip instead of staying closed towards the pitcher.  The hip and butt are out.  He can still do damage on inner half stuff but he loses all his leverage when he has to reach for stuff on the outer half and he’s almost totally vulnerable to outside corner.   

Yeah I saw a swing from JH a while ago after he got sent back down where he was much more stepping directly at the pitcher and I thought "hmmm....that looks better".   Gunnar imo has that nailed as far as the proper form.   Which is part of why he is so good.  The swing in the above video is a little better than what he had this spring but he still opening up a bit. 

With JH, I still have nightmarish visions of him from this spring lifting his right leg up,  striding towards first base with his right leg, and his hips body and head flying to first base with it while he swings and misses for the 1000th time. 

Edited Tuesday at 19:55 by OnlyOneOriole

[baltfan]

From Ben Clemens Chat: Ben Clemens FanGraphs Chat - 7/1/24 | FanGraphs Baseball

 

Pat: Skubal for Jackson Holliday- Who says No?

2:57	Ben Clemens: Hot take: the O’s say no, but they shouldn’t

2:58	Ben Clemens: Holliday’s line in the minors in June is SO weird

2:58	Ben Clemens: .444 OBP, .378 SLG

2:59	Ben Clemens: wtf is going on here, you know?

2:59	Ben Clemens: since coming back down he’s hitting .252/.425/.421, and I just don’t think those walk skills are obviously gonna play

2:59	Ben Clemens: in the majors

2:59	Ben Clemens: 23% walk rate, i mean….

2:59	Ben Clemens: I dunno I’m still very optimistic

3:00	Ben Clemens: but I don’t think he’s a surefire all star, and Skubal is right now

3:00	Ben Clemens: I recognize that this puts me in a strange spot as an evaluator

3:00	Ben Clemens: If you’re counting expected WAR, even if you do some non-linear shaped stuff to make avearge players less valuable and stars better, Holliday easily tops Skubal

3:00	Ben Clemens: but I just don’t think it plays that way in real life

[OnlyOneOriole]

2 hours ago, baltfan said:

From Ben Clemens Chat: Ben Clemens FanGraphs Chat - 7/1/24 | FanGraphs Baseball

 

Pat: Skubal for Jackson Holliday- Who says No?

2:57	Ben Clemens: Hot take: the O’s say no, but they shouldn’t

2:58	Ben Clemens: Holliday’s line in the minors in June is SO weird

2:58	Ben Clemens: .444 OBP, .378 SLG

2:59	Ben Clemens: wtf is going on here, you know?

2:59	Ben Clemens: since coming back down he’s hitting .252/.425/.421, and I just don’t think those walk skills are obviously gonna play

2:59	Ben Clemens: in the majors

2:59	Ben Clemens: 23% walk rate, i mean….

2:59	Ben Clemens: I dunno I’m still very optimistic

3:00	Ben Clemens: but I don’t think he’s a surefire all star, and Skubal is right now

3:00	Ben Clemens: I recognize that this puts me in a strange spot as an evaluator

3:00	Ben Clemens: If you’re counting expected WAR, even if you do some non-linear shaped stuff to make avearge players less valuable and stars better, Holliday easily tops Skubal

3:00	Ben Clemens: but I just don’t think it plays that way in real life

That opinion is the same as I have and why I think the Os should trade him for a pitching bonanza.  I mean that guy took word for word what I have been saying. 

I don't see his skills screaming major league elite to me.  Just pretty good.  So while he is still the #1 prospect?

Trade for what we need...pitching. 

Edited Tuesday at 22:57 by OnlyOneOriole

[emmett16]

This thread needs to be renamed "What makes Holliday so untouchable?"

 

[Hallas]

35 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

That opinion is the same as I have and why I think the Os should trade him for a pitching bonanza.  I mean that guy took word for word what I have been saying. 

I don't see his skills screaming major league elite to me.  Just pretty good.  So why he is still the #1 prospect?

Trade for what we need...pitching. 

While you're not crazy for touching on the possibility of evaluator groupthink when it comes to Holliday, those evaluators drew those conclusions because his 2023 stats were really crazy considering it was his first full pro season.  And Gunnar certainly didn't look like a 12 WAR MLBer when he was a 21 year old prospect, and he was also a #1 overall prospect.  There was some concern with Gunnar because of his swing-and-miss (and to be fair it remains an issue) but he developed.  That's what prospects do.  You have to make some projections on whether they'll cover their current shortcomings.  A lot of people think a 20 year old with this kind of performance history in the high minors makes him the best prospect in MLB.  Obviously you disagree, and that's fine, but they didn't just come up with the prospect rankings by throwing darts on a dart board.  The other prospects have either graduated or look worse than Holliday, or are way older.  His age is also significant and you keep dismissing it.  Most athletic skills don't peak until like 23 or 24.

 

Regarding pitching, the only pitcher that I think might be available AND is worth Holliday is Logan Webb.  Otherwise you're looking at guys like Skenes and I don't expect pitchers like Skenes to be available even for Holliday.  Skubal only has 2 additional years of control left.  Miller's injury history scares me.  Luzardo looks bad this year.  I can't think of anyone else that's even close.

Edited Tuesday at 22:52 by Hallas