Could the Orioles be in on Jordan Montgomery after the season officially starts?

[waroriole]

2 minutes ago, Safelykept said:

And neither could the Yankees Astros Or whoever Really???

Do the Yankees or Astros have a bottom 5 payroll?

[Malike]

Not too shocked. E-Rod needs to be placed in bubble wrap as he'll start the season on the IL. He's averaged 137IP a year in his 8 year career.

[Moose Milligan]

Didn’t think we’d ever get him, just glad he’s going out west and not in our division. 

[EdwinRip]

I’m just glad we were quick to scoop up Kemp and lock him in with the Orange and Black.

[RZNJ]

17 minutes ago, Malike said:

Not too shocked. E-Rod needs to be placed in bubble wrap as he'll start the season on the IL. He's averaged 137IP a year in his 8 year career.

You make that sound bad.  Tyler Glasnow has never pitched as many as 137 in any season.

[O's84]

Not happy about this.  Montgomery would have been a big shot in the arm for a questionable rotation.  I guess we have to hope that Povich and McDermott can make the leap this year.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

We couldn’t beat 1/25? Really??

Incredibly bad judgment to have done so. $25 million for maybe 20 or 21 starts? And if he makes 10 then he automatically gets another $20 million for next year? Even if he’s terrible? Come on… It’s time to roll with what we have. 

[Malike]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

You make that sound bad.  Tyler Glasnow has never pitched as many as 137 in any season.

Another guy not worth 30M a year. 

[O's84]

13 minutes ago, Philip said:

Incredibly bad judgment to have done so. $25 million for maybe 20 or 21 starts? And if he makes 10 then he automatically gets another $20 million for next year? Even if he’s terrible? Come on… It’s time to roll with what we have. 

I disagree.  Bradish and Means are question marks at this point.  You are going in to this season with Burnes, Rodriguez, Wells for probably half a season, Kremer, and Irvin.  That's not a rotation I feel super confident in.  

As for Montgomery, he fits like a glove for this team.  Over the last 3 years he has pitched to a 3.48 ERA while averaging 175 IP per year.  It's a short term deal to a guy that's been reliable as they come.  He would be 31 this year and 32 next year if he stays, so it's not like were having him on a big contract through his late 30s.  Add in the fact that were not going to have Burnes next year and I think he fits a big need for us: This year for our WS chances, and next year to help soften the blow of losing Burnes.  

 

[Tony-OH]

I'll be honest, that is a deal the Orioles do everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. If you can get Jordan Montgomery for two years for $50 million when you still have an extremely low payroll that has been extremely low for years, that's pretty weak.

Now had he signed a 5 or 7 year deal I would have said I get it, but 2-years on a team that's in it's window? Sure, the Orioles very well could get Means and Bradish back, but they might not.

Is Mike Elias really saying he's perfectly fine with Dean Kremer starting game three of the playoffs this year again? 

I understood the Tony Kemp signing to degree and as long as it's to fill in for a bit and not all season, I really don't have a huge issue, but not getting a lefty starter that fits like a glove into your rotation on a two year deal is really, really poor.

Now maybe Elias is still hamstrung until the new owners officially can cut checks, but I fear this says more about how Elias wants to operate. 

Sure, he went out and got Burnes when he knew Bradish was hurt, but between this and not pulling the trigger on a Cease deal because they wanted Jordan Westburg, (when you have Mayo and Holliday ready to play 3B and 2B respectively) tells me that he's going to be very skittish with trading his guys or signing expensive free agents.

Elias told us today that he's risk averse. Perhaps that will continue to work and the team will win 100 games again and get hot during the playoffs and win a World Series. Or perhaps he just showed us his hand. 

He's a risk adverse GM who wants to show the world that he can win without doing these contracts. It makes me very concerned that if he's not willing to pay guys now, when the team's payroll is still embarrassingly low, what is he going to be like when he HAS to pay Gunnar, Adley, Holliday, Bradish, Rodriguez, Mayo and Basallo? 

Unless new ownership changes him, I think we better be happy he gained an extra year or Holliday and Mayo for a few weeks in the minors because we're getting 6 or 7 years of these guys before they are getting paid elsewhere.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Elias was hamstrung still, but I just think he's risk adverse and likes to be known as the smartest guy in the room who can do it cheaper than anyone else. 

Unfortunately as a fan, we could have had a team with Montgomery in the rotation pitching half his game with Waltimore keeping those right-handed heavy lineups at bay. But I'm sure Cole Irvin will be just as good. 

[Gilbutson]

Sigh. Absolutely ridiculous. Not that at this point it can’t be seen coming a mile away, but to me this was a layup of a deal and yet again nothing gets done. Unless a surprise trade or something comes after this which is extremely unlikely, very disappointing outcome if not totally predictable at this point. 
 

 

[24fps]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I'll be honest, that is a deal the Orioles do everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. If you can get Jordan Montgomery for two years for $50 million when you still have an extremely low payroll that has been extremely low for years, that's pretty weak.

Now had he signed a 5 or 7 year deal I would have said I get it, but 2-years on a team that's in it's window? Sure, the Orioles very well could get Means and Bradish back, but they might not.

Is Mike Elias really saying he's perfectly fine with Dean Kremer starting game three of the playoffs this year again? 

I understood the Tony Kemp signing to degree and as long as it's to fill in for a bit and not all season, I really don't have a huge issue, but not getting a lefty starter that fits like a glove into your rotation on a two year deal is really, really poor.

Now maybe Elias is still hamstrung until the new owners officially can cut checks, but I fear this says more about how Elias wants to operate. 

Sure, he went out and got Burnes when he knew Bradish was hurt, but between this and not pulling the trigger on a Cease deal because they wanted Jordan Westburg, (when you have Mayo and Holliday ready to play 3B and 2B respectively) tells me that he's going to be very skittish with trading his guys or signing expensive free agents.

Elias told us today that he's risk averse. Perhaps that will continue to work and the team will win 100 games again and get hot during the playoffs and win a World Series. Or perhaps he just showed us his hand. 

He's a risk adverse GM who wants to show the world that he can win without doing these contracts. It makes me very concerned that if he's not willing to pay guys now, when the team's payroll is still embarrassingly low, what is he going to be like when he HAS to pay Gunnar, Adley, Holliday, Bradish, Rodriguez, Mayo and Basallo? 

Unless new ownership changes him, I think we better be happy he gained an extra year or Holliday and Mayo for a few weeks in the minors because we're getting 6 or 7 years of these guys before they are getting paid elsewhere.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Elias was hamstrung still, but I just think he's risk adverse and likes to be known as the smartest guy in the room who can do it cheaper than anyone else. 

Unfortunately as a fan, we could have had a team with Montgomery in the rotation pitching half his game with Waltimore keeping those right-handed heavy lineups at bay. But I'm sure Cole Irvin will be just as good. 

I agree that Montgomery would have been a perfect fit and the deal he got looked affordable given the O’s current payroll obligations. But put yourself in Rubenstein’s position for a moment: would you agree to buy the team without an explicit understanding as to the obligations the outgoing ownership group could saddle you with?  There is zero question in my mind that Elias’ 2024 budget is close to maxed out now and there is a hard - and very short - limit as to the length of any contract he can currently offer, and those terms were arrived at collaboratively a while ago.

As to Elias’ risk tolerance, that definitely will be something to watch in the coming years. It is almost certain that he will be operating in a very different environment than he’s been used to up to this point, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from me at least through the next offseason. 

[Keygans]

inexcusable we didn’t beat this…

[Too Tall]

Well, I'm going to return my crystal ball and ask for a refund. I guess Elias thinks Means and Montgomery are a wash, and we have the pitching depth to endure 162 and beyond. Hope he's right. Always Interesting!!!!!!!

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I'll be honest, that is a deal the Orioles do everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. If you can get Jordan Montgomery for two years for $50 million when you still have an extremely low payroll that has been extremely low for years, that's pretty weak.

Now had he signed a 5 or 7 year deal I would have said I get it, but 2-years on a team that's in it's window? Sure, the Orioles very well could get Means and Bradish back, but they might not.

Is Mike Elias really saying he's perfectly fine with Dean Kremer starting game three of the playoffs this year again? 

I understood the Tony Kemp signing to degree and as long as it's to fill in for a bit and not all season, I really don't have a huge issue, but not getting a lefty starter that fits like a glove into your rotation on a two year deal is really, really poor.

Now maybe Elias is still hamstrung until the new owners officially can cut checks, but I fear this says more about how Elias wants to operate. 

Sure, he went out and got Burnes when he knew Bradish was hurt, but between this and not pulling the trigger on a Cease deal because they wanted Jordan Westburg, (when you have Mayo and Holliday ready to play 3B and 2B respectively) tells me that he's going to be very skittish with trading his guys or signing expensive free agents.

Elias told us today that he's risk averse. Perhaps that will continue to work and the team will win 100 games again and get hot during the playoffs and win a World Series. Or perhaps he just showed us his hand. 

He's a risk adverse GM who wants to show the world that he can win without doing these contracts. It makes me very concerned that if he's not willing to pay guys now, when the team's payroll is still embarrassingly low, what is he going to be like when he HAS to pay Gunnar, Adley, Holliday, Bradish, Rodriguez, Mayo and Basallo? 

Unless new ownership changes him, I think we better be happy he gained an extra year or Holliday and Mayo for a few weeks in the minors because we're getting 6 or 7 years of these guys before they are getting paid elsewhere.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Elias was hamstrung still, but I just think he's risk adverse and likes to be known as the smartest guy in the room who can do it cheaper than anyone else. 

Unfortunately as a fan, we could have had a team with Montgomery in the rotation pitching half his game with Waltimore keeping those right-handed heavy lineups at bay. But I'm sure Cole Irvin will be just as good. 

Tony, that you for stating this the way that you did. Your voice gives credibility within this community to what is becoming a real concern.

I know that some posters/fans are uncomfortable with any criticism of Elias because of the wonderful job that he has done rebuilding our organization. However, I believe that because all human beings have blind spots/imperfections (however you want to frame it), it is not helpful for any person to receive nothing but affirmation and praise in the absence of any critique. It only feeds the ego, which can become dangerous.

It is could be possible that Elias has tremendous ability in terms of talent evaluation and building the correct processes in the place that lead to development of that talent. But it could also be true that there is a weaknesses with being able to make bold decisive decisions when it comes to trades and Free Agents? Or maybe it is that the extremely frugal/reticence to spend nature of John Angelos was the major obstacle to Elias being able to add talent in ways that extend beyond the draft/developing prospects? Or maybe it is some combination of both? Or maybe it's an ego thing as you suggested Tony? Or maybe it's a philosophical thing that Elias can't/won't budge from? 

No matter what it is, Montgomery, Snell, and Cease for that matter, represented the ideal opportunity to improve our Major League team, protect ourselves further from the risk of pitching injuries and lower the floor of our outcome for the season. And we failed to capitalize. As you stated Tony, the payroll is not going to be any lower than this anytime soon, and it has already bottomed out for just about a half of a decade now.

Are we that wedded to a philosophy that says we must always bargain shop no matter what? Sometimes you actuall get what you pay for.

I am concerned about being dogmatic toward any singular philosophy (no matter how good/effective) and the inability to pivot/be flexible. One of the true signs of genius is the ability to adapt. 

It appears that the same thought process that led us to acquire 2 largely ineffective pitchers at the deadline (Fuji & Flaherty), Gibson last offseason (who was not good enough to help us at all in the postseason - similar to when he was a member of the Phillies the season before) and us effectively punting on Free Agency in back to back years; is still at play.

I have to hope that whatever this hinderance is will be addressed by Rubenstein's leadership. Otherwise what I believed/hoped that the goal was (multiple rings or at least the chance to put ourselves in the best opportunity to get there) by undertaking a massive rebuild/extreme tank, will not be realized.