Could the Orioles be in on Jordan Montgomery after the season officially starts?

[Gunnar]

Maybe the D-Backs purposefully got this done in a hurry, before the O's sale was official.  Any chance Elias just had to wait for that before adding payroll?

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Gunnar said:

Maybe the D-Backs purposefully got this done in a hurry, before the O's sale was official.  Any chance Elias just had to wait for that before adding payroll?

You don't think Montgomery and his agent might have been wise to that?

[Gunnar]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't think Montgomery and his agent might have been wise to that?

Maybe they presented a one-time offer, to make Montgomery make a quick decision? I dunno, just trying to make it make sense.

[ChosenOne21]

It's entirely possible that the ownership transfer is making it very difficult for the Orioles to hand out any kind of big-ish contract. I'm not totally convinced it is, but I guess we'll know for sure next offseason.

Yeah, it'd be worse for us if Montgomery went to the AL East, but honestly, the fact it's the Diamondbacks kind of stings more. The Diamondbacks are a mid-market team. There's no way we couldn't afford a payroll in line with theirs. We have way more room to add money and they're the ones who landed the free agent.

I seriously doubt Elias is trying to "prove" he can win with a bottom three payroll. I'm sure he'd like to spend more, but I'm guessing the reason he can't is some combination of Angelos being tight-fisted and the transfer of ownership screwing with the budget. 

[Tony-OH]

38 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Tony, that you for stating this the way that you did. Your voice gives credibility within this community to what is becoming a real concern.

I know that some posters/fans are uncomfortable with any criticism of Elias because of the wonderful job that he has done rebuilding our organization. However, I believe that because all human beings have blind spots/imperfections (however you want to frame it), it is not helpful for any person to receive nothing but affirmation and praise in the absence of any critique. It only feeds the ego, which can become dangerous.

It is could be possible that Elias has tremendous ability in terms of talent evaluation and building the correct processes in the place that lead to development of that talent. But it could also be true that there is a weaknesses with being able to make bold decisive decisions when it comes to trades and Free Agents? Or maybe it is that the extremely frugal/reticence to spend nature of John Angelos was the major obstacle to Elias being able to add talent in ways that extend beyond the draft/developing prospects? Or maybe it is some combination of both? Or maybe it's an ego thing as you suggested Tony? Or maybe it's a philosophical thing that Elias can't/won't budge from? 

No matter what it is, Montgomery, Snell, and Cease for that matter, represented the ideal opportunity to improve our Major League team, protect ourselves further from the risk of pitching injuries and lower the floor of our outcome for the season. And we failed to capitalize. As you stated Tony, the payroll is not going to be any lower than this anytime soon, and it has already bottomed out for just about a half of a decade now.

Are we that wedded to a philosophy that says we must always bargain shop no matter what? Sometimes you actuall get what you pay for.

I am concerned about being dogmatic toward any singular philosophy (no matter how good/effective) and the inability to pivot/be flexible. One of the true signs of genius is the ability to adapt. 

It appears that the same thought process that led us to acquire 2 largely ineffective pitchers at the deadline (Fuji & Flaherty), Gibson last offseason (who was not good enough to help us at all in the postseason - similar to when he was a member of the Phillies the season before) and us effectively punting on Free Agency in back to back years; is still at play.

I have to hope that whatever this hinderance is will be addressed by Rubenstein's leadership. Otherwise what I believed/hoped that the goal was (multiple rings or at least the chance to put ourselves in the best opportunity to get there) by undertaking a massive rebuild/extreme tank, will not be realized.

Very well stated.

It might be a combination of the things you mentioned. We all agree that Elias has been amazing at developing this team into contender with a deep system that should help them compete, but he's rolling the dice that his veterans (Urias, Mountcastle, Hays, and Santander) are going to keep producing at their levels and also hoping he's going to get more innings out of Wells and Irvin then they needed to give last year. 

Maybe he will end up right. Perhaps Montgomery was a luxury for him and perhaps he'll end up right, but there is no way the deal he signed for was something this team should not be able to afford. 

But again, who knows what financial restraints he was under? 

I guess we'll know more at the trading deadline this year and especially after next offseason with Rubenstein as owner on whether Elias is risk averse, frugal, or just truly believes he can put up a contender without bringing in high priced proven players.

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, 24fps said:

I agree that Montgomery would have been a perfect fit and the deal he got looked affordable given the O’s current payroll obligations. But put yourself in Rubenstein’s position for a moment: would you agree to buy the team without an explicit understanding as to the obligations the outgoing ownership group could saddle you with?  There is zero question in my mind that Elias’ 2024 budget is close to maxed out now and there is a hard - and very short - limit as to the length of any contract he can currently offer, and those terms were arrived at collaboratively a while ago.

As to Elias’ risk tolerance, that definitely will be something to watch in the coming years. It is almost certain that he will be operating in a very different environment than he’s been used to up to this point, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from me at least through the next offseason. 

If the bolded portion is true, then we will de dependent on great injury luck/magic for the starting pitching staff because that will mean that we can't make meaningful additions at the deadline (similar to last season).

[Sports Guy]

I’d say that maybe Elias just doesn’t like JM’s profile as a pitcher but then again, he seems to like the profile of Kremer and Wells, so that can’t be it. (Although maybe those guys having that profile with a cheaper deal makes it more palatable for him)

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, waroriole said:

We couldn’t beat 1/25? Really??

We didn’t want to.  

[jabba72]

It's definitely eye opening that Angelos wouldn't OK this. Whatever. Todays the last morning he will be owner ( I hope) 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

It's definitely eye opening that Angelos wouldn't OK this. Whatever. Todays the last morning he will be owner ( I hope) 

Let's just keep in mind that we don't what actually went down.

There is the slightest of chances that Montgomery either wouldn't sign with the O's or would have demanded a lot more.

If all they would have had to do was match the deal tho...

[Ripken]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We didn’t want to.  

Which is a problem.  This would have improved the team, cost no prospects, and still left the Orioles with a low payroll this year and next, where the rotation is losing at least Burnes.

[Sanity Check]

Guys, it's been like this regarding every major free agent the Hangout has wanted since the late 90's.  Guerrero, Texiera, and many, many more....every year.  Anyone who gets worked up about these things is like Charlie Brown again and again thinking Lucy will actually not pull the ball back.

I would have loved to have Montgomery, but to get disappointed about missing out on yet another big money free agent is just having unreasonable expectations, and the disappointment is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We accept it and move on.  Check out "Handle Hard Better" on youtube.....it's a good lesson for those who get overly emotional about things we don't control.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Guys, it's been like this regarding every major free agent the Hangout has wanted since the late 90's.  Guerrero, Texiera, and many, many more....every year.  Anyone who gets worked up about these things is like Charlie Brown again and again thinking Lucy will actually not pull the ball back.

I would have loved to have Montgomery, but to get disappointed about missing out on yet another big money free agent is just having unreasonable expectations, and the disappointment is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We accept it and move on.  Check out "Handle Hard Better" on youtube.....it's a good lesson for those who get overly emotional about things we don't control.

Someone has obviously forgotten about Tejada.

[Frobby]

No matter who the owner is, the best formula for being a happy fan is to never assume the team is likely to go get an expensive free agent, and then be pleasantly surprised if they do.  I’m just going to focus on the team we have.

[sportsfan8703]

The other side to not signing JM…. Not saying I agree.

Montgomery will probably make 15ish starts before the trade deadline. The flip side to not signing Montgomery is that we’re not putting all of our eggs in the Montgomery basket for post trade deadline/post season. At least now we have the flexibility to go after the hot hand, someone healthy, or someone better than JM, at the deadline. 

We’ll get our first experience as Rubenstein as an owner at the trade deadline. 

Maybe JM wasn’t Elias’ pound the table guy with Rubenstein. Don’t wanna blow your good will with the new owner on a risky move like JM for $25 million. 

Edited March 27 by sportsfan8703