What makes Basallo so untouchable?

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, CP0861 said:

Soto played 8 games in AA and was in the majors at 19. Not sure that's a decent comp.

Acuna only spent 57 games in AA and his numbers were better. Not insanely better, but .326/.895 compared to .281/.800. Definitely better.

Camineiro's numbers were also significantly better. 20 hr's in 81 games. .309/.921. He was also in MLB at 19.

Holliday was only there for 36 games. .338/.928.

I think lists like that are part of the problem with ranking/comparing players. To me, looking at their AA numbers, Basallo does not quite belong to be mentioned in that group. But it's subjective I suppose.

 

I'm literally giving you the guys that he shares a RC+ with from AA at age 19.  Read into what you will.  His numbers are comparable to Acuna, Soto, Holliday, and Caminero.  

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, CP0861 said:

I know he's been mentioned repeatedly as untouchable and he's very highly regarded. I get all that.

But why exactly?

I know he's still a little young for AA, but do his numbers in the minors thus far scream untouchable?

He's a big kid - is he elite defensively behind the plate? Is he expected to put up Frank Thomas type numbers some day?

Just thinking out loud...don't kill me. But with Adley locked up for 3 years beyond this year and with Mayo looking like a nice, studly 1b option (at least imo), along with the other young bats that we have, where exactly does he fit in the next year or two?

Also, we literally have no rotation next year. GRod (the #3 to start 2024) becomes the ace with who behind him?

If Basallo is a piece that gets the Orioles an ace with years of control, how do they say no?

 

I hear what you are saying and respect the perspective. But how much of this board have you read?

Surely you will (unfortunately) get shouted down by daring to suggest that here. 

Most posters on this board consider that unthinkable and would rather retain all/every valued prospect no matter the cost/ramifications/consequences. 

[Philip]

56 minutes ago, Malike said:

Yeah, I meant to say he's struggled in the last month. His overall ERA is still 3.88. He wouldn't be better than Rodriguez. They may have arms in the minors but I doubt they are trading anyone from the rotation, pitching is what is going to keep them in the playoff hunt. I have no idea what their pitching prospects look like.

The Mariners don’t have a single pitching prospect until 12th. 17-20 are all pitchers, but only one is at AAA, and one at AA. I didn’t look at individual stats, but it doesn’t appear there’s anyone here who can help the Os…or the Ms for that matter.

[sportsfan8703]

You have to consider how cold and rainy it was in April when looking at Basallo's numbers.  Heck, look at the O's MLB team numbers compared to May and June.  Terrible conditions in the mid atlantic in April.  

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

The grow the bats is working really well.

The arms part, not to much. They're not coming from the recent amateur drafts or international signings. Elias has been unwilling to part with top position-player talent to get top pitching talent (other than a year of Burnes for the obviously redundant Ortiz). The Orioles are unlikely to be able and willing to outbid the higher-revenue teams (NYYs, Dodgers, Red Sox, Phillies, Braves, Giants, Astros, Mets, etc.) for real good free-agent pitchers, who will get contracts that call for them to paid big dollars  well after they are likely to be productive.

With a payroll this low and an ownership group with a bankroll this high, I don't know why the Orioles would be unable to outbid higher-revenue teams?

Some of them are into the salary tax threshold currently and some like the Red Sox and Giants are mired in mediocrity with higher payrolls. 

Lastly, you left two teams off your list - The San Diego Padres and the St. Louis Cardinals. They seem to be able to "out bid" sometimes and afford higher payrolls in smaller markets.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

You have to consider how cold and rainy it was in April when looking at Basallo's numbers.  Heck, look at the O's MLB team numbers compared to May and June.  Terrible conditions in the mid atlantic in April.  

The Orioles scored 5.42 runs per game in April, much higher than what they scored in May.   I'm not buying any weather-related excuses.

I think Basallo's relatively slow start is more attributable to his elbow issue and limited reps in spring training.   But also, sometimes players just have a slow start.

[Philip]

Is Basallo at all comparable to Vlad Jr, who hits well but defends lousy? Every caveat about Basallo is his defense, including bad footwork that would presumably limit him to 1B or DH. So is there a worry he’d be like Vlad, who is severely handicapped by his defense?

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, CP0861 said:

Soto played 8 games in AA and was in the majors at 19. Not sure that's a decent comp.

Acuna only spent 57 games in AA and his numbers were better. Not insanely better, but .326/.895 compared to .281/.800. Definitely better.

Camineiro's numbers were also significantly better. 20 hr's in 81 games. .309/.921. He was also in MLB at 19.

Holliday was only there for 36 games. .338/.928.

I think lists like that are part of the problem with ranking/comparing players. To me, looking at their AA numbers, Basallo does not quite belong to be mentioned in that group. But it's subjective I suppose.

 

You aren’t taking into account what the offense is like in that league in any given year, how they compare to their peers, etc…again, you are just dismissing evidence. 
 

We get it. You are willing to sell lower on him vs basically most of the fans, team and most around the game. That’s fine. 
 

The rest of us have our reasons, which have been laid out to you but you don’t find them terribly compelling. 

[CP0861]

20 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hear what you are saying and respect the perspective. But how much of this board have you read?

Surely you will (unfortunately) get shouted down by daring to suggest that here. 

Most posters on this board consider that unthinkable and would rather retain all/every valued prospect no matter the cost/ramifications/consequences. 

Lol. Yeah I know, hence the "don't kill me" comment.

[CP0861]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You aren’t taking into account what the offense is like in that league in any given year, how they compare to their peers, etc…again, you are just dismissing evidence. 
 

We get it. You are willing to sell lower on him vs basically most of the fans, team and most around the game. That’s fine. 
 

The rest of us have our reasons, which have been laid out to you but you don’t find them terribly compelling. 

Cool. So just go away.

But, if you're gonna hang around (call me crazy, but I bet you can't leave) do me a favor and stop putting words into my mouth.

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

With a payroll this low and an ownership group with a bankroll this high, I don't know why the Orioles would be unable to outbid higher-revenue teams?

Some of them are into the salary tax threshold currently and some like the Red Sox and Giants are mired in mediocrity with higher payrolls. 

Lastly, you left two teams off your list - The San Diego Padres and the St. Louis Cardinals. They seem to be able to "out bid" sometimes and afford higher payrolls in smaller markets.

I know you think throwing money at everything is the answer but there is a difference between being smart and being able to afford it. 

[btdart20]

Detroit Tigers won the FA off-season and were the media darlings heading into 2022.  Baez is an albatross like Chris Davis.  It takes more than simply payroll.  Our major signings were Lyles and Odor in 2022.  Gibson and Frazier in 2023.  I think we all prefer winning actual games vs. projected games.

And the trade for arms thing has actually happened.  Even a CY caliber arm.

Any trade is a value proposition.  Team control of cheap, young talent has value even for the big markets.  Especially if the goal is a perennial contender vs. a competitive window.

Bumping the odds in a short-term window (while maintaining the long-term perennial contender strategy) can be done with lower tier prospects (ala Burnes and even Flaherty IMO despite the 2023 results).

[Sports Guy]

Just now, CP0861 said:

Cool. So just go away.

But, if you're gonna hang around (call me crazy, but I bet you can't leave) do me a favor and stop putting words into my mouth.

Not putting words in your mouth. Basically every post you have made is dismissing the evidence being provided to you. You either don’t want to hear it or don’t think it’s valid.

Not sure how anyone can read what you have said and come away with a different thought.

 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

Is Basallo at all comparable to Vlad Jr, who hits well but defends lousy? Every caveat about Basallo is his defense, including bad footwork that would presumably limit him to 1B or DH. So is there a worry he’d be like Vlad, who is severely handicapped by his defense?

I think it’s too early to say.  He’s still young and inexperienced.  His bat is ahead of his glove.  That doesn’t means that he can’t develop into a solid defender.   He has a very good arm and by all accounts is pretty athletic.  But it’s an open question.  

As to Vlad Jr., he is pretty athletic but his weight restricts his mobility, and that’s getting worse.   He won a Gold Glove in 2022 and the defensive metrics had him about average then.   He’s deteriorated from there.

 

[Il BuonO]

25 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

The grow the bats is working really well.

The arms part, not to much. They're not coming from the recent amateur drafts or international signings. Elias has been unwilling to part with top position-player talent to get top pitching talent (other than a year of Burnes for the obviously redundant Ortiz). The Orioles are unlikely to be able and willing to outbid the higher-revenue teams (NYYs, Dodgers, Red Sox, Phillies, Braves, Giants, Astros, Mets, etc.) for real good free-agent pitchers, who will get contracts that call for them to paid big dollars  well after they are likely to be productive.

How so? Qualify it all you want, but the trade was made. To me, I'd rather have the guy who makes the right deal, not just the first available deal. 

And I'm fine with them not being able to outbid the higher market teams, keeps them out of ugly contracts. It doesn't mean Elias is without means to compete, just look how competitive TB has been for years in a smaller? market.