Just how bad is the Orioles bullpen this year?

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

Besides Bautista and first half of cano the bullpen was bad yea.

That’s just false. Last year’s pen had a 3.71 ERA in the first half and 3.35 in the second half.  Other guys picked it up when Cano slipped a bit and Bautista got hurt.  

[Spy Fox]

6 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

Besides Bautista and first half of cano the bullpen was bad yea.

Anything can be bad, if you ignore the good parts! 

[eddie83]

I started a post months ago that didn’t get any traction. I don’t think it was my best…

 

The point I was trying to make is this team is different from what we had from 12-16. Those teams felt like we had little to no margin for error except in 14 when the rotation had a special season. They could never repeat that. 
 

We had a lot of good players lead by Adam but the depth of our team was never this good. Our rotation never really had top of rotation type stuff. We needed that elite pen to have a chance. The 14 team had a legit shot. Clearly the best team.  
 

This team is more talented. The pen is much weaker. The modern game is all about who you have in October not how you got there. We don’t know what the Orioles will have come October. This is not going to be a pen that will dominate. Far from it. That said the rotation has upside if Grayson comes back. You can use guys in different roles. Have a chance Coloumbe and Webb will be back. Just have to get there and find out. I do think the experience of playing last year will be helpful. 

[Moose Milligan]

Watching Uli get schooled here was a treat!

[accinfo]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Watching Uli get schooled here was a treat!

Uli and Bottom Gunnar.

[EddeeEddee]

29 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

Besides Bautista and first half of cano the bullpen was bad yea.

Last year's Oriole bullpen had the fifth best ERA in baseball.  Bautista, Cano and Coulombe were outstanding and Webb, Perez, Hall and even Baker and Baumann were effective out of the pen last season.

[EddeeEddee]

29 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

Besides Bautista and first half of cano the bullpen was bad yea.

Last year's Oriole bullpen had the fifth best ERA in baseball.  Bautista, Cano and Coulombe were outstanding and Webb, Perez, Hall and even Baker and Baumann were effective out of the pen last season.

[Sports Guy]

I don’t care about the WHIp.

16th in K rate (really propped up by Kimbrel)

16th in BB rate

11th in HR rate

12th in FIP

18th in WPA

It’s a mediocre pen without its best reliever and the guy they brought in has helped with some of these stats but he’s not someone you want to have the ball in a crucial situation right now.

I have very little faith in anyone out of the pen right now other than Dominguez.

But again, that can change a lot in the next 6 weeks. We need 4 relievers.

[Uli2001]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Watching Uli get schooled here was a treat!

I am here to learn, sure. I have watched baseball for decades and I’m still learning.

If that gives you pleasure, that’s great, because I’m happy to learn too.

I used one data point to make, well, a point. You don’t really have to use any data, just your eyes, to see that this is a bad BP. I also posted after a win so no one can say it’s a reactionary post.

[BRobinsonfan]

10 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

I am here to learn, sure. I have watched baseball for decades and I’m still learning.

If that gives you pleasure, that’s great, because I’m happy to learn too.

I used one data point to make, well, a point. You don’t really have to use any data, just your eyes, to see that this is a bad BP. I also posted after a win so no one can say it’s a reactionary post.

To paraphrase Mark Twain.  You used your one data point like a drunk uses a lamp post.  More for support than illumination.  

[Uli2001]

1 hour ago, BRobinsonfan said:

To paraphrase Mark Twain.  You used your one data point like a drunk uses a lamp post.  More for support than illumination.  

This is probably the worst BP among all contenders. But okay, go ahead and shoot the messenger.

[sportsfan8703]

16 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Cano is the top reliever in this bullpen, and yet he wouldn't be a back-end reliever on most contenders. This is how bad this BP is.

To back this up, I looked up the Cleveland bullpen for comparison.

Cano's 2024 WHIP = 1.34

Cleveland Bullpen:

Clase = 0.66

Gaddis = 0.74

Smith = 0.92

Herrin = 0.98

Morgan = 0.98

Sandlin = 1.13

Avila = 1.26

Barlow = 1.41

Cano's WHIP is worse than every Cleveland reliever but one.

Source: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/CLE/cleveland-guardians/stats/regular/

They also face a really crappy division, and haven't had as many SP injuries as we've had.  Bullpens pitch better when rested and against weaker competition.  

Edited August 19 by sportsfan8703

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

This is probably the worst BP among all contenders. But okay, go ahead and shoot the messenger.

Like I said in my post, I don’t think most people disagree that our bullpen is pretty bad, especially right now.  I just didn’t think the data presented in the OP really proved that.  

Here’s our bullpen ERA by month:

March/April: 3.81

May: 3.65

June: 3.23

July: 4.83

August: 6.35

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that our bullpen has really struggled these last two months.  You just have to hope that a couple of guys can get things turned around and that Webb and Coulombe will return and be effective.

When you really look at who has been horrible  since July 1:

- Kimbrel has totally imploded, 7.24 ERA

- Soto has been awful since we got him, 15.43 ERA

- Irvin was terrible, 9.00 ERA, and got demoted   

- Bryan Baker, 5.73 ERA, has been his usual unreliable self

- Dillon Tate had three straight bad outings at the beginning of July (13.50 ERA).   

Other guys like Akin (4.19) and Perez (4.11) haven’t pitched their best, but they’ve been within the normal ups and downs of a season.  Smith (4.11) has been about as good as could be expected.  

 

 

[SilverRocket]

I don't think the bullpen was that bad at the beginning of the year. It's been decimated by injuries. Coulombe was our most trusted guy and nobody else could really handle the situations he was asked to pitch in. Webb has arguably overperformed expectations, and now he's out.

If one of Bradish, Wells or Means stayed healthy, that could have meant Suarez ends up in the pen. In an optimistic world where two of them remained healthy then that makes the workload easier to handle too.

So I don't blame Elias too much, though I wish we'd taken a flyer on Jorge Lopez. The bottom of the pen is just seeing which arms have the hot hand and every additional arm helps there.

[Say O!]

Could maybe see Kremer in bullpen role for postseason?  Unlike Big Al whose stuff remained the same starter v bullpen, I bet we would see tick or two up in Kremer’s stuff and potentially get higher K rate in shorter stints. We already see Deano dial fastball up on occasion as a starter, so may see more frequent 95-96mph heater out of the pen. Pair that with his new split this year, could be viable back end reliever for 7 or 8th innings.