After Two Weeks of Pie...

[Flosman]

Boy this Pie discussion here and around the board is getting old. Pie has natural ability, i.e. talent. Will he put it together at the ML level noone knows for sure. But he is a proven talent still. Most on this board conviently forget how bad Nick looked when he arrived in Baltimore. His first month in the majors his line was 182/270/288. He had a OPS of 683 at the allstar break that first season. He was rather bad honestly, but he had talent still. If a club identifies that you have to be patient enough to let that cream rise to the top, IMO. There was a discussion about how Pie would perform out of the gate this season and if he would have a month with a 750 OPS or better. Well his last month in the Majors (September) he had a line of 300/391/450 so he is capable of producing at the ML level atleast over a short period of time. I think it may be worth noting that this is the most recent data. A couple of other interesting notes in comparing Nick and Pie. They have basically the same MiL BA, Slug%, HR rate. Nick has always walked more, But scored fewer runs. To not recognize that it is in the O's best long term interests to see if Pie's talent comes to the forefront if given an extended period to relax and show what he has, is just beyond my understanding. It has nothing to do with Reimold. Reimold is close and I think will end up being a better version of Luke Scott when all is said and done. But a little more development time and time to clear space for Reimold is wise IMO. But most importantly both Pie and Reimold need to be in a place where they get 450+ ABs this year and the current moves ensure just that.

[Frobby]

Boy this Pie discussion here and around the board is getting old. Pie has natural ability, i.e. talent. Will he put it together at the ML level noone knows for sure. But he is a proven talent still. Most on this board conviently forget how bad Nick looked when he arrived in Baltimore. His first month in the majors his line was 182/270/288. He had a OPS of 683 at the allstar break that first season. He was rather bad honestly, but he had talent still.

Understand, first of all, that I'm in favor of giving Pie a half-season to show something. And yes, .680 OPS would probably be enough.

That said, Nick was 2 years younger than Pie and had barely played AA ball. Pie has over 1100 plate appearances in AAA and the majors. Shouldn't we expect him to be a little further up the learning curve than Nick was?

[Flosman]

Understand, first of all, that I'm in favor of giving Pie a half-season to show something. And yes, .680 OPS would probably be enough.

That said, Nick was 2 years younger than Pie and had barely played AA ball. Pie has over 1100 plate appearances in AAA and the majors. Shouldn't we expect him to be a little further up the learning curve than Nick was?

IMO the cubs have wasted the past two years of Pie's development which was stupid. Pie was at the same point two years ago, IMO, and the Stats bear that out. However the Cubs did not stick with Pie when he struggled. No one knows if Pie will make the transition but the upside is worth giving untill the allstar break and seeing if he is showing signs of success before pulling the plug.

[Since'54]

The funny thing is, I felt the exact same way about your post. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

The "what position do you play?" line is what I think actual O's players say to fans who they overhear referrering to the team as "us" or "we".

To me this is more than "agree to disagree".

First, what I said is "our Orioles" -- which describes what I and lots of others feel. I watched my Orioles from 1954 in Memorial Stadium until I left town for New England in 1963. Since then I've been carrying the flag in Red Sox territory through good years and bad. I don't own a share of the team, but they belong to me more than they belong to Peter Angelos.

Which is why I thought your remark was rude and silly. I suspect that Oriole players would be happy with the way I feel.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Maybe this should be a rant (or at least merged with another thread) but I absolutely cannot fathom what is going on with this board.

Maybe it's because we've been losing for so long.

Maybe it's because Pie was not a home-grown talent.

Maybe it's because people on here love Garrett Olson.

I really don't know. What I DO know, however, is that there is an inordinate amount of venom being spewed in this guy's direction. Do people not realize how little experience he has at the big league level? Who cares if he's having a bad spring? On the one hand nobody seems to mind that the O's as a team have lost 7 straight games. It's only spring. But my goodness, if Pie hits a rut it's the end of the freaking world.

Sure, his big league numbers aren't great. What were Markakis' #s like after 250 MLB ABs? I know he was barely hitting .250 at the end of June 2006.

The point is...RELAX! We're not competing this year. Nolan Reimold, Luke Scott, etc etc will all have their chances to contribue this year, but neither of them have the potential that Pie does and, at this point, isn't it in our team's best interest to roll the dice with the guy that has the highest ceiling?

[YardBirds13]

I'm with you. It's absurd.

[Frobby]

Maybe this should be a rant (or at least merged with another thread) but I absolutely cannot fathom what is going on with this board.

Maybe it's because we've been losing for so long.

Maybe it's because Pie was not a home-grown talent.

Maybe it's because people on here love Garrett Olson.

I really don't know. What I DO know, however, is that there is an inordinate amount of venom being spewed in this guy's direction. Do people not realize how little experience he has at the big league level? Who cares if he's having a bad spring? On the one hand nobody seems to mind that the O's as a team have lost 7 straight games. It's only spring. But my goodness, if Pie hits a rut it's the end of the freaking world.

Sure, his big league numbers aren't great. What were Markakis' #s like after 250 MLB ABs? I know he was barely hitting .250 at the end of June 2006.

The point is...RELAX! We're not competing this year. Nolan Reimold, Luke Scott, etc etc will all have their chances to contribue this year, but neither of them have the potential that Pie does and, at this point, isn't it in our team's best interest to roll the dice with the guy that has the highest ceiling?

As I have said numerous times, I'm in favor of playing Pie regularly for half a season and then evaluating the situation.

Why half a season? Because Markakis was coming on after half a season. Because Jones was coming on after half a season. Because the vast majority of the 20 players who were under 24 last year managed a .700 OPS in the first half last year. Because Pie already has had 287 major league plate appearances and 849 AAA PAs.

Now does that mean that Pie needs to have a .700 OPS on June 30 or he gets cut? No. It means, qualitatively, that we can see improvement, and we can see the potential. Adam Jones had a .699 OPS on June 30 but you culd see that the light was starting to turn on. Nick Markakis had a .675 OPS on June 30 but you could see the light wa starting to turn on. That is what we need to see with Pie.

I don't feel this is asking too much. Pie managed a .637 OPS in very sporadic playing time last year, shouldn't we expect more if he is getting regular time? It's not like he is jumping from AA to the majors, as Markakis did.

[JBugaboo]

I don't care if this is in a separate thread; I'm repping you Pedro.

[Moose Milligan]

This thread rules.

[canonfaz]

I completely agree. Everyone wanted us to trade for him. And now that we have him they want to judge him on his spring training stats and his visa issue (not his fault as far as I an concerned)

I am looking forward to seeing what Pie does this season. He might not win the job in left, but at least we are looking towards the future.

[Mackus]

I must be missing all the people ripping on Pie (and please don't point me in the direction of those threads if I am, I'd prefer not to read them).

I thought it was just a few lesser informed posters who have been calling him out frequently, rather than many people who think giving him a shot is a poor idea.

[SoBo]

It's obvious that Crowley has been working with him a lot this spring. So it seems to me he has a ways to go with the bat. Which is fine. We have a ways to go before we contend. Take his defense and let him fix his issues at the plate. And if he never can, you have a nice 4th OFer and a capable back up plan in Reimold. Why exactly are we so upset by this situation?

[FR500]

I don't know. Given the pathetic shape of our starting rotation, I am finding all the "heated discussion" over Pie a semi-amusing deversion. Any chance of an OH spinoff... PH (Pie Hangout)? I have absolutely nothing to back this on, but my guess is that Corey Patterson Jr will not bat his weight and will not be around by the all-star game. I hope I'm wrong, but 5 tool guys don't impress me anymore. Personally, I'd like a LF with a little pop rather than speed.

[dslats715]

I must be missing all the people ripping on Pie (and please don't point me in the direction of those threads if I am, I'd prefer not to read them).

I thought it was just a few lesser informed posters who have been calling him out frequently, rather than many people who think giving him a shot is a poor idea.

No matter who calls him out

Calling him out with a thread of: "OMOMgomgomG PIeE NEEDS TO GO!!11" Is not the way to go about it. And though my example is an exaggeration, its not THAT exaggerated.

[RShack]

I must be missing all the people ripping on Pie (and please don't point me in the direction of those threads if I am, I'd prefer not to read them).

I thought it was just a few lesser informed posters who have been calling him out frequently, rather than many people who think giving him a shot is a poor idea.

It's what happens a lot: if you just look at threads and posts, and don't keep track of exactly who's saying what, the loud impression is sometimes quite different than the distribution of opinion. It's kinda like the diff between hate-radio vs. public opinion. (No, I am *not* saying OH is like hate-radio, just talking about the diff between "what gets said" vs. "how many folks are really saying it", that's all.)

It makes me hope that players don't read stuff here, because some of it is embarrassing. They'd just see the noise, not understand about the cast of characters, and think that a huge bunch of folks here don't even have half-a-clue.