Hoes and Avery

[DrShorebird]

I don't see why Hoes doesn't get any harsh words from Doc. He's performing worse than Avery in every way and apparently now might get moved to the outfield, so he must not be impressing defensively... don't really understand it.

We had Ryan Adams playing 2B last year. It has been a while since we had Paco Figueroa and Jonathan Tucker.

LJ has been converted to 2B from OF. He is playing a very decent 2B for such a young man with essentially no real 2B experience. He does not look lost at times. He looks better defensively than Ryan did last year. Of course, Ryan was a much better hitter.

Xavier looks good sometimes, raw sometimes and lost a few times. We have not had anyone in CF ever at Delmarva that looked this raw!

When you watch Hoes, you don't come away thinking he has a lot to learn but maybe they can do something with him. Hoes just looks as if he is learning the trade.

When you watch Avery, you know they have to work on his batting style (he is gettting away with slap hitting here, but may not at higher levels ... of course, if he can that would be great. He does have quick batting reflexes) I think they will modify his dropping of his hands and often deciding to swing way too late.

As far as comparing the defenses of Xavier and LJ, the rawness of Xavier is readily apparent, whereas LJ doesn't look so raw. Perhaps, Avery will become a super-star and Hoes may not. I'm just telling you what I see here and expressing my humble opinion. That doesn't make me right. In fact, I hope I am wrong. But, I advise people to watch another year or so before betting.

Down here, we don't so much look at stats, but play. My opinions are shared by many here who come out to the ballpark every night. I am sure there are others who see it differently and hopefully they will express their opinions here.

[Frobby]

Xavier looks good sometimes, raw sometimes and lost a few times. We have not had anyone in CF ever at Delmarva that looked this raw!...

When you watch Avery, you know they have to work on his batting style (he is gettting away with slap hitting here, but may not at higher levels ... of course, if he can that would be great. He does have quick batting reflexes) When someone was encouraging Xavier to try for more triples because of his speed, one player remarked that Xavier can't hit the ball hard enough. Maybe that player wasn't joking. I think they will modify his dropping of his hands and often deciding to swing way too late.

As far as comparing the defenses of Xavier and LJ, the rawness of Xavier is readily apparent, whereas LJ doesn't look so raw. Perhaps, Avery will become a super-star and Hoes may not. I'm just telling you what I see here and expressing my humble opinion. That doesn't make me right. In fact, I hope I am wrong. But, I advise people to watch another year or so before betting.

Down here, we don't so much look at stats, but play. My opinions are shared by many here who come out to the ballpark every night. I am sure there are others who see it differently and hopefully they will express their opinions here.

I've never seen Avery play, so I am not disputing your opinion, at all, that he is very raw. But how many 19 year olds playing in their first full pro season has Delmarva even had? My point is that not that Avery isn't as raw as you say, but when you say he's not up to the standard we expect of a no. 2 pick playing his first full season of pro ball, who are you comparing him to?

[hoosiers]

I've never seen Avery play, so I am not disputing your opinion, at all, that he is very raw.

Recent Delmarva CFers include relatively polished products like Bobby Andrews, Danny Fig, Matt Angle, etc. These are not really fair comps for Avery.

[DrShorebird]

, who are you comparing him to?

Myself at that age.

[QBsILLEST1]

Myself at that age.

haha nice....I think Im replying to the wrong post, but another thing thats wild is that last year, I would have said Hoes is the better hitter compared to Adams, but not this year, not after seeing Hoes fall appart. What concerns me the most is his lack of discipline now when last year at this time, he seemd very polished and was actually on the verge of being a top 100 prospect, he got an honerable mention....Very sad to see....

[LookinUp]

haha nice....I think Im replying to the wrong post, but another thing thats wild is that last year, I would have said Hoes is the better hitter compared to Adams, but not this year, not after seeing Hoes fall appart. What concerns me the most is his lack of discipline now when last year at this time, he seemd very polished and was actually on the verge of being a top 100 prospect, he got an honerable mention....Very sad to see....

3 points

1. I'm surprised to see Shorebird's opinion of Avery's skillset after listening to Walling on the radio. I wonder what this says - perhaps nothing - about how in-touch Walling really is? I'm guessing the Doc knows what he's talking about though. It'll be interesting to get Tony's take.

2. Every report about Hoes is that he's still a relatively polished and smart player. The stats this year do concern me a little, but I'm going to trust the reports for now. He's still very young for low-A ball. He'll have to start hitting next year though or he'll start to drop farther down the radar.

3. Nobody anywhere seems to be talking about Miclat. That's a shame. We had such high hopes.

[McLovin]

haha nice....I think Im replying to the wrong post, but another thing thats wild is that last year, I would have said Hoes is the better hitter compared to Adams, but not this year, not after seeing Hoes fall appart. What concerns me the most is his lack of discipline now when last year at this time, he seemd very polished and was actually on the verge of being a top 100 prospect, he got an honerable mention....Very sad to see....

As has been documented on this board, Hoes is having a very tough year on the personal/non-baseball side. Combine that with his new full-time job and the responsibilities that come with it - that's a lot to handle for a 19 year old.

[QBsILLEST1]

As has been documented on this board, Hoes is having a very tough year on the personal/non-baseball side. Combine that with his new full-time job and the responsibilities that come with it - that's a lot to handle for a 19 year old.

I have never heard that he was having a tough year in his personal life. And hopefully Miclat comes back next year and can rebound....

[RedDevil00]

I have never heard that he was having a tough year in his personal life.

Both of Hoes' parents are having serious health issues right now (he said this in an interview last month with the Shorebirds' announcer). He actually left the team for a few days last month to be with his family. So yeah, he's having it pretty rough. I'm impressed that he can think about baseball at all right now.

[QBsILLEST1]

Both of Hoes' parents are having serious health issues right now (he said this in an interview last month with the Shorebirds' announcer). He actually left the team for a few days last month to be with his family. So yeah, he's having it pretty rough. I'm impressed that he can think about baseball at all right now.

Wow, I had no idea.....Sorry to hear about that...

[DrShorebird]

3 points

1. I'm surprised to see Shorebird's opinion of Avery's skillset after listening to Walling on the radio. I wonder what this says - perhaps nothing - about how in-touch Walling really is? I'm guessing the Doc knows what he's talking about though. It'll be interesting to get Tony's take..

Please keep in mind that Denny Walling is a professional and I am just a fan! However, Denny focuses on hitting and is here for a couple of nights and then on his way. During that time, Avery may not have much action in CF.

The question raised in this thread involves whether one or the other should be kept at Delmarva next year. I only offer my comments to serve as the eyes and ears of those who can't visit Delmarva regularly. Stats are stats, but teams still send human observers to the games to see for themselves what stats don't show.

My comments were directed to what I believe as fan observer would help these young men the most. Both will improve next year whether or not they are promoted to Frederick. My unprofessional opinions are directed towards what I belive -- based on the play of both I have seen in spring training and at Delmarva -- will make each the best major league player in the long run. Hoes and Avery are different and will respond to different stimuli differently.

I don't have the pressure of having to promote anyone just because he is a #2 or otherwise high draft pick. My job isn't on the line for any political reason. However, from watching these two young men play baseball, my opinion is that Hoes would very likely benefit most in the long run by moving to Frederick next year and that Avery would benefit most in the long run by repeating Delmarva. This opinion could easily change in either direction if either has a surprising 2010 spring training.

It is a theory that can't be tested. We can't do it both ways and compare results. The organization will hopefully make the right decision and then fans can second guess. That is one of the functions of this board. It is good therapy.

[Frobby]

from watching these two young men play baseball, my opinion is that Hoes would very likely benefit most in the long run by moving to Frederick next year and that Avery would benefit most in the long run by repeating Delmarva. This opinion could easily change in either direction if either has a surprising 2010 spring training.

I'm not in a hurry to push either one. We pushed Rowell up to Frederick 2 years ago, after a half-decent offensive season at Delmarva, and look how that has worked out. To me, players with a sub-.700 OPS shouldn't be promoted except out of necessity. And it sounds like both have plenty to work on defensively.

[LookinUp]

Please keep in mind that Denny Walling is a professional and I am just a fan! However, Denny focuses on hitting and is here for a couple of nights and then on his way. During that time, Avery may not have much action in CF.

The question raised in this thread involves whether one or the other should be kept at Delmarva next year. I only offer my comments to serve as the eyes and ears of those who can't visit Delmarva regularly. Stats are stats, but teams still send human observers to the games to see for themselves what stats don't show.

My comments were directed to what I believe as fan observer would help these young men the most. Both will improve next year whether or not they are promoted to Frederick. My unprofessional opinions are directed towards what I belive -- based on the play of both I have seen in spring training and at Delmarva -- will make each the best major league player in the long run. Hoes and Avery are different and will respond to different stimuli differently.

I don't have the pressure of having to promote anyone just because he is a #2 or otherwise high draft pick. My job isn't on the line for any political reason. However, from watching these two young men play baseball, my opinion is that Hoes would very likely benefit most in the long run by moving to Frederick next year and that Avery would benefit most in the long run by repeating Delmarva. This opinion could easily change in either direction if either has a surprising 2010 spring training.

It is a theory that can't be tested. We can't do it both ways and compare results. The organization will hopefully make the right decision and then fans can second guess. That is one of the functions of this board. It is good therapy.

First, sorry to sort of pit you against Walling. That certainly wasn't my intention. I do appreciate your disclaimer!

Here's the thing, many of the uneducated masses, of which I certainly am one, have doubts about the O's ability to develop young hitters. Like it or not, those doubts point to Walling as the man responsible. When we hear accounts like yours, saying things like Avery is a slap hitter that doesn't have enough power in his swing to take advantage of his speed, and those accounts are not what I heard from Walling on the radio, it raises questions.

FWIW, Walling seemed like a great guy who 'gets it' when he was on the radio. Also, in fairness, a good number of players who have been helped by Walling over the years - Reimold, Fiorentino, Salazar, Snyder, Waring (adjustments this year), Widlansky, Joseph and Welty have taken nice steps forward.

It is possible that this organization's hitters are progressing right under my ample nose.

[DrShorebird]

The comparison of input between myself and Denny is a natural. I don't feel that our comments were "pitted" against each other.

Denny is a friend whom I respect and I know he has helped a lot of hitters. Add Brandon Tripp to tyour list, and I don't know how many others.

Julio was also a good batting instructor in spring camp.

I think what Denny sees (and I don't want to imply that I know what's in his mind) is that the X-man has guick reflexes, good bat speed (with a tiny bat) and footspeed. I bet denny thinks that he has good material to work with.

I have been told by others in the system that they will work with Avery to improve his batting. Dropping your hands and flicking the ball over the infield is much better than not getting a hit. I'll take a sure hit any time. However, I doubt that he will be able to continue to do this at AA level and above. If he can, more power to him (pun intended).

In my humble opinion, he hesitates too long before recognizing strikes. While it is good to watch the ball and not commit until the last minute, there is a limit. Swinging or flicking at the ball when the ball is in the glove is an example. Perhaps, if he is taught to keep his hands in his starting position, recognize the pitch and swing (rather than drop and flick), he will improve his major league chances.

At the beginning of the season, I expected him to break BJ Littleton's triple record for Delmarva, not battle 6'7" Mahoney for the triples crown. Perhaps a slightly heavier bat would enable him to reach the outfield corners more often. But, his hitting is not why I feel it would be best for him to repeat Delmarva. It is his "inexperience" at CF. Fast he is, but he needs to improve his response at reading balls off of the bat and how to run the appropriate route and turns. It would be less pressure on him to gain this experience at Delmarva than at Frederick where he also has to contend with facing tougher pitching.

[3M9]

I've seen Avery in CF and he has a LOT to learn out there. He is an outstanding athlete that can "make up" for his poor OF instincts at this time. At some time he just has to get better taking routes to fly balls. However, as good as athlete as he is he outruns some of his mistakes and that can be done at HI-A as easily as LO-A one would think.

Hoes has a lot of work to do in learning how to turn the DP...again, that can be done at both levels.

Ultimately it comes down to how either can handle the pitching at HI-A. If they cannot handle it offensively, then the should repeat at LO-A. That said, has either of them proven they can consistently handle LO-A?

Something that has to be considered...Angle WILL be at AA next year...and Adams might very well repeat at Frederick.