Even if you don't blame Trembley...

[section18]

Money isn't everything to some people. If you were GM of this team how would you feel watching this collapse? I'm not implying he would be asked to leave. That's not happening. He might decide to go elsewhere on his own.

[BaltimoreTerp]

The question should not be "has he done something bad enough to warrant being let go?" If his contract went beyond this year, that would be the case. But his contract is up. Right now the Orioles have no one under contract for 2010 to manage the team. The ONLY question MacPhail should be asking is, WHO is the best man I can get for the job in 2010? The job is vacant until someone is offered and signs a 2010 contract. If he believes Trembley is the answer to that question, then fine, he should absolutely offer him a new contract. But ONLY if he believes that. By framing the question the way you have (has Trembley done anything so bad as to not deserve to come back?), you are saying you don't want the Orioles to have the best manager possible next year.

Would you say that about any other position on the team? Would you say that the Orioles should not even consider trying to find a really good utility infielder next year because Andino has done nothing horrible enough to warrant being replaced? Of course not. You would look to field the best possible team. Obviosuly budget is an issue so if another manager cost ten times Trembley but was only, in your mind, a little better, you might not make the move. But he shouldn't get special treatment that any player doesn't get....I want the Orioles to find the best possible person for every position next year, given realistic financial constraints and longerm talent issues, etc....that means third base, closer, utility infielder, or manager. No one should automatically retain their job just because they "didn't screw up so badly".

Very, very good points.

I've been pushing the "evaluate the coaches just like the players" point all year. And I think it gets lost in the discussion that unless a decision is actually made by that point, as of the final out of the game on October 4 we no longer have a manager (there's probably specific contract language to the actual timing, but that's essentially what it is).

"Has he done a poor enough job to be released from his contract" is a completely different discussion from "Has he done enough to be given a new contract".

It's like Ty Wigginton, who has had a poor season by any measure though it seems likely that he will be better next year. He is under contract for next year at $3.5 million. He is almost assuredly going to be on this team next season (barring a trade); however, were he an upcoming free agent I don't think the chances of a return are reasonable.

[srobby08]

I know Tom Kelly is asst to GM in Minnesota but do you think AM could persuade him to come to Baltimore

[Arthur_Bryant]

I know Tom Kelly is asst to GM in Minnesota but do you think AM could persuade him to come to Baltimore

Unless Kelly has an expiring contract, AM would first have to persuade the Twins to let him talk. Not a given.

[geschinger]

Very, very good points.

I've been pushing the "evaluate the coaches just like the players" point all year. And I think it gets lost in the discussion that unless a decision is actually made by that point, as of the final out of the game on October 4 we no longer have a manager (there's probably specific contract language to the actual timing, but that's essentially what it is).

"Has he done a poor enough job to be released from his contract" is a completely different discussion from "Has he done enough to be given a new contract".

It's like Ty Wigginton, who has had a poor season by any measure though it seems likely that he will be better next year. He is under contract for next year at $3.5 million. He is almost assuredly going to be on this team next season (barring a trade); however, were he an upcoming free agent I don't think the chances of a return are reasonable.

Great points by SteveA and you adding to it.

I am ambivalent towards DTs return, I won't be upset either way AM goes. The one thing I find interesting about those most vocal about bringing DT back the reasons are almost universally why he shouldn't be let go. I'd like to see people make the case for why he deseves a new contract.

[tvz1997]

I'll be slightly sad if Trembley is let go, but I'll get over it.

I think many here are going to be baying just as loudly for the head of the next manager a couple of years down the road, simply because that's who they are and what they do.

Personally, my guess is that for many of the young players, seeing some continuity in management here is more important than bringing in some "proven winner" (whomever that might be). Trembley hasn't lost the clubhouse, hasn't thrown the team under the bus...hasn't done anything, IMO to warrant being let go. However, it's obviously not my decision, so I'll await MacPhail's.

I think I am with you on this. I don't think that DT has been obviously bad to the point that you do not give him another shot with a better team next year UNLESS you have a chance to get a proven great manager who can still relate to the kids (good luck).

Not that it means everything, but the continuity angle was brought up by Palmer, Weaver, and Brooks over the past year when asked about what direction the Os should go. Maybe the game has changed. Maybe it hasn't.

[Satyr3206]

Great points by SteveA and you adding to it.

I am ambivalent towards DTs return, I won't be upset either way AM goes. The one thing I find interesting about those most vocal about bringing DT back the reasons are almost universally why he shouldn't be let go. I'd like to see people make the case for why he deseves a new contract.

I'm at exactly the same place. I think he has been hamstrung by some injury and roster issues but I don't think this team is as bad as it's record. If MacPhail has him come back I think it should be a 1 yr deal and he has to be accountable for wins and losses and the general play of the team next year.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Great points by SteveA and you adding to it.

I am ambivalent towards DTs return, I won't be upset either way AM goes. The one thing I find interesting about those most vocal about bringing DT back the reasons are almost universally why he shouldn't be let go. I'd like to see people make the case for why he deseves a new contract.

I'm sure most people would consider me a DT hater, but honestly I feel that whatever Andy MacPhail decides to do there will turn out OK. I just think that there are legitimate questions that shouldn't be shouted down as unpopular or marginalized through comparisons to extremists and crackpots.

[fansince1988]

The kicker for me is that many fans including myself couldn't stomach another late season collapse. By the allstar break many posters were saying that as long as we avoided the annual (and dreaded) late season free fall that we would have been OK with another "developmental" year. Well guess what happened....another DREADED LATE SEASON FREE FALL.

For the most part the cavalry is here folks. The cavalry is here.

[Roll Tide]

The kicker for me is that many fans including myself couldn't stomach another last season collapse. By the allstar break many posters were saying that as long as we avoided the annual (and dreaded) late season free fall that we would have been OK with another "developmental" year. Well guess what happened....another DREADED LATE SEASON FREE FALL.

For the most part the cavalry is here folks. The cavalry is here.

Sure ...Here but injured or shut down...Not making excuses but the O's have again had bad luck (Reimold, Jones, etc) & expiring rookies like Matusz.

[El Gordo]

Great points by SteveA and you adding to it.

I am ambivalent towards DTs return, I won't be upset either way AM goes. The one thing I find interesting about those most vocal about bringing DT back the reasons are almost universally why he shouldn't be let go. I'd like to see people make the case for why he deseves a new contract.

If I were AM I would want to bring DT back because he is a guy who is basically on the same page with me. He has the respect of the team, he is willing to work with what I give him. Next year is a transition year from rebuilding to competing. While I plan to add some upgrades over the winter, I do not envision the team being in contention. Not many managers of the LaRussa, Scioscia, Cox, Leyland ilk, would be wiling to work with me on those terms. DT has been a good soldier so far for me, and he is fine for what I need next season. After that we'll see. You have to remember I am the guy who is running the show here, much like Beane in Oakland, and not any manager is going to be comfortable working with in those strictures.

[BaltimoreTerp]

The kicker for me is that many fans including myself couldn't stomach another last season collapse. By the allstar break many posters were saying that as long as we avoided the annual (and dreaded) late season free fall that we would have been OK with another "developmental" year. Well guess what happened....another DREADED LATE SEASON FREE FALL.

For the most part the cavalry is here folks. The cavalry is here.

By which you mean watching the game from the dugout, possibly in street clothes, of course.

[olehippi]

Even though I believe he is the right guy for the job, as the O's stumble, trip, and crawl helplessly towards the end of the season, I have the feeling that it doesn't bode well for Trembley's future as manager .... even though the annual late season implosion is not his fault.

[Pat Kelly]

Even though I believe he is the right guy for the job, as the O's stumble, trip, and crawl helplessly towards the end of the season, I have the feeling that it doesn't bode well for Trembley's future as manager .... even though the annual late season implosion is not his fault.

Article in Sun supports this sentiment.

Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail, who will announce a decision on Trembley's status over the next seven to 10 days, said even before Sunday's debacle that he had hoped the team would have been much more competitive with Toronto and Cleveland, two teams who also have been playing out the string for quite some time.

"I'm disappointed in this road trip," said MacPhail, who watched the three games from a booth behind home plate. "I know we're beat-up and running out of bullets, but I'm not real pleased with it. Some of it, I can understand. But I don't think Cleveland and Toronto are terribly different than we are."

[Marc Spector]

Look, I suggested a while back that Trembley should probably go, provided we continue to play very poorly after the break as in years past and DEFINITELY if we have another late August/September nightmarish swoon. This was all hard to write as I like DT immensely as a man. Well, folks the armageddon-esque swoon is once again here: We're in the middle of a seemingly interminable 10 game losing streak and 3 game sweep by a team that just lost 11 freaking straight and in their own meltdown.

The kicker for me was when I was informed on one of the broadcasts that we had lost our 6th straight game and I didn't even know it. I had watched all six games and HADN'T EVEN NOTICED WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PROLONGED LOSING STREAK (sorry about the caps but I need them here). In other words, I had, after 12 straight seasons become so inured to losing that I didn't even notice it, like another killing in a big city. As an O's fan, that's horrible. The problem is, I don't even know who to blame: the team is a dismal combination of some potentially great/good/solid professionals and glorified minor leaguers. We also traded away good players, experienced injuries and shut down Matusz. A combo of John McGraw, Connie Mack, and Tony La Russa would come in last with this team in the AL East. That said, my gut says Trembley is not the answer....

And finally, I think in the future we should refrain from continuing to refer to Chris Tillman and Brian Matusz in the same breathless, cornerstone of franchise, "can't miss" categories. I personally believe Matusz is the real deal, and will be a wonderful major league pitcher. I think Tillman can be very good, potentially great, but the jury on him is decidedly still out.....