Even if you don't blame Trembley...

[AlbNYfan]

It has been a long, frustrating year for all concerned including front office, managers, coaches, players and fans. Managers get signaled out as the problem, because they are the easiest to replace. I believe there are no managers out there that would have significantly improved the teams record. Is DT a good manager? We'll probably never know. The players he has had to work with over the past two + years have been shaky, to say the least. He is not the one who supplies the players on the field, he simplies manages the players he is given. So, while AM gets applauded (by most), DT gets subjected to the wrath of many, it goes with the territory. There were many that were not happy with Gerardi last year, and look what a 1/2 billion dollars can do, make him a genius and manager of the year (most likely).

I am not sure what directives AM gave DT this year....be patient, allow the starting pitchers to relax, get some innings, learn. Give AB's to Wieters, Pie, Reimold, again give them a chance to grow...patience. When GS was traded, try JJ and others to see how well they do. Was DT told in September to play the players that were brought up to see if they were worth protecting on the 40 man roster? It's hard to believe that DT is making all the decisions involving line-up and bull pen use. Adding that 3/4 of his outfield is gone, the strongest part of this team, the results are not surprising.

I really don't have a strong opinion either way about the future of DT. He loves the game and appreciates the opportunity afforded him. However, personally, I believe much of this year has been a plan developed by both AM and DT success or failures can not be measured solely in W-L or the moves DT did or did not do. I am not sure what the right move is, all I can hope for is that AM is smart and makes the right move.

[JTrea81]

Another perfect example of why people don't take what you say seriously.

So what outside talent did MacPhail bring in last offseason?

His biggest outside get was Uehara, and while it was an inroads to Japan, it was hardly a move that an average GM couldn't have pulled off. He basically only signed with us because we were offering him a rotation spot. And now we see why other teams saw him as a reliever.

His big moves were extending Markakis and Roberts IMO.

And instead of going after Randy Wolf, he pursued Looper and Redding.

Wigginton backfired as he's not a full time solution at any position, even DH.

Hendrickson and Moeller were the only decent signing as once the Orioles put Hendrickson in the role he was supposed to be in, he did well. Moeller was a capable backup catcher and from reports a good mentor to Wieters. But Zaun, Wigginton and Uehara were all busts IMO.

The Olson trade worked out well for us, I'll give him that as Pie looks like a decent 4th OFer or trade bait.

But his offseason was pretty much neutral. He brought in no pieces last offseason that are LT options for us going forward to compete IMO.

He can't do that this offseason, not with the opportunity we have in FA.

[Roll Tide]

Honestly, this is the kind ridiculous thought process that's mind boggling. do you have any idea of what's going on? The Orioles are in a full force rebuilding process that AM has performed very slowly and methodically. AM traded his best reliever and his top hitter from a year before. The Orioles had four rookies make eight or more starts. We have a bullpen with one reliever with an ERA under 5.00. We lost our left fielder and center fielder, and our current third baseman has a .671 OPS in over 465 PAs.

We have one hitter with more than 20 home runs. We play in the toughest Division in baseball.

Despite all of this, you are looking for wins? Really? This team is currently pitiful. Our pitching staff is decimated or filled with terribly inconsistent relievers.

Judging Dave Trembley by wins and losses is ridiculous.

I agree with you on this Tony... Which goes back to my last point. AM needs to add quality to the roster this off season. We need a TOR starter IMO (Lackey would work) , A 1B or 3B (Trade) that can produce power numbers from the clean up spot. Not more Wiggington/ Eaton types.

[scOtt]

If MacPhail thinks DT is the man for this team going forward or is unsure then it makes sense. But if MacPhail doesn't think he's the right guy to take this team to the next level wouldn't it be better to bring the guy in who he thinks is that person instead of breaking continuity when this team is ready to contend by bringing in another manager?

I've said before, in Andy we trust. I personally think DT's job is secure (for now.) I'd rather see the continuity, but if AM sees otherwise, I'm down with that too.

And a scenario... say you keep DT for next year and next... and THEN AM decides to switch (Tony LaRussa or whoever... ) That could be just the thing to shake up a young team into contention.

Contention.... is a VERY different thing than what Dave is dealing with right now...

[Mad Mark]

I've said before, in Andy we trust. I personally think DT's job is secure (for now.) I'd rather see the continuity, but if AM sees otherwise, I'm down with that too.

And a scenario... say you keep DT for next year and next... and THEN AM decides to switch (Tony LaRussa or whoever... ) That could be just the thing to shake up a young team into contention.

Contention.... is a VERY different thing than what Dave is dealing with right now...

It's been less than three years since Angelos finally got the GM thing right. You want to see what constant churn does to an organization? Look at the "football team" in Landover. I'm on board with scOtt, here...100%.

[scOtt]

I agree with you on this Tony... Which goes back to my last point. AM needs to add quality to the roster this off season. We need a TOR starter IMO (Lackey would work) , A 1B or 3B (Trade) that can produce power numbers from the clean up spot. Not more Wiggington/ Eaton types.

I agree with this... Eaton and all the rest of the stiffs that were brought in last offseason were just placeholders. AM does need to step up his game THIS offseason. Only thing I would disagree on is he doesn't have to bring in ALL those pieces this offseason. If he can, than all power to him! But they just aren't all available, without decimating what we have in the minors.

He needs to make some real progress, one or two SOLID deals for the future, and then see how it all cooks up in '10. THEN it's on! If what we already have continues to impress next year, then offseason 10-11 is THE time to pull the trigger.

[scOtt]

It's been less than three years since Angelos finally got the GM thing right. You want to see what constant churn does to an organization? Look at the "football team" in Landover. I'm on board with scOtt, here...100%.

Look at the O's from '98 to 2007. How many managers? How many pitching coaches? Ask Mike Mussinna about all the PCs. Ask Sir Sid.

[byrdz]

Look at the O's from '98 to 2007. How many managers? How many pitching coaches? Ask Mike Mussinna about all the PCs. Ask Sir Sid.

That's a lot of lousy managers and pitching coaches!

[BaltimoreTerp]

Judging Dave Trembley by wins and losses is ridiculous.

I think this is one thing everyone can agree on.

[RShack]

If MacPhail thinks DT is the man for this team going forward or is unsure then it makes sense. But if MacPhail doesn't think he's the right guy to take this team to the next level wouldn't it be better to bring the guy in who he thinks is that person instead of breaking continuity when this team is ready to contend by bringing in another manager?

Oh, I think most everybody agrees that AM is gonna re-up DT or make a change, based on what he thinks is best going forward. I don't think there's any doubt about that, at least among the non-crazies. Lotsa folks (including me) are just guessing about what AM thinks, that's all. I think most folks here realize that we don't know what things look like from the inside, we're just looking from the outside and guessing.

[Fan4Life]

If I were AM I don't know how I could tell DT that he didn't get enough out of the team I gave to wrk with this season, and do it with a straight face or a clear conscience. I can't think of one reasonably reliable arm in the current bullpen, a SP I feel would give us a reasonable expectation of winning, and besides BRob I can't think of another bat I could count on for a key hit. This team DT has to work with currently would have a hard time beating most AAA teams.

There was a post recently that came from a fan's remarks to Roch on the MASN blog. Nobody here had much interest in commenting on it. It was probably the wrong forum for that fan to want his rant to be answered, but several of the items could be or are DT related. If you buy into that, then those issues would be AM's on list...

[DrungoHazewood]

So what outside talent did MacPhail bring in last offseason?

...

Wigginton backfired as he's not a full time solution at any position, even DH.

I agree with you on this Tony... Which goes back to my last point. AM needs to add quality to the roster this off season. We need a TOR starter IMO (Lackey would work) , A 1B or 3B (Trade) that can produce power numbers from the clean up spot. Not more Wiggington/ Eaton types.

You guys are funny. Horribly critical of MacPhail for signing Wigginton, lumping him in with a sub-replacement talent coming off a terrible year like Eaton.

Wigginton was coming off a year as a nearly full-time performer where he hit 20+ homers and signed a very cheap, short-term deal. It was almost universally praised here, for good reason. If you're going to gig MacPhail for this, you need to gig almost everyone on this board, including probably yourselves.

[TGO]

I am basically agnostic on Trembley. I trust in MacPhail for this particular decision. However, just to play devil's advocate:

Dave Trembley has the third worst winning % in Orioles (1954-present only) history. The only two worse were Cal Ripken, Sr. and Jimmy Dykes (who only got one year and had been very successful before that with the White Sox).

Trembley has been worse than Perlozzo, Hargrove, and Robinson, and I don't think anyone can really argue the talent Trembley has had was worse than the talent they had. He's also been worse than Miller and Regan, who I think had better talent and were terrible managers. And he's been worse than Mazzili, who had better talent but who also got set up to fail.

[Slappy]

Trembley over 2 1/2 seasons has not shown that he brings anything above average to the manager's chair. Changing the manager isn't going to hurt, that's for sure, and it may help.

[osfan83]

Honestly, this is the kind ridiculous thought process that's mind boggling. do you have any idea of what's going on? The Orioles are in a full force rebuilding process that AM has performed very slowly and methodically. AM traded his best reliever and his top hitter from a year before. The Orioles had four rookies make eight or more starts. We have a bullpen with one reliever with an ERA under 5.00. We lost our left fielder and center fielder, and our current third baseman has a .671 OPS in over 465 PAs.

We have one hitter with more than 20 home runs. We play in the toughest Division in baseball.

Despite all of this, you are looking for wins? Really? This team is currently pitiful. Our pitching staff is decimated or filled with terribly inconsistent relievers.

Judging Dave Trembley by wins and losses is ridiculous.

Considering MLB Payroll disparities I don't think the O's should ever be judged on W/L's.