Big 10 wants to expand

[geschinger]

The Pac-10's contract is also up after 2011' date=' I believe. I was reading in one of the local paper's out here that the Pac-10 has discussed forming their own network, like the Big-10. The big difference is that they would consider joining with another conference to do it. If that's the case, I think an ACC/Pac 10 venture makes sense...with the difference in time zones each conference could combine to have live games broadcast from 12pm ET (9am PT) until well past midnight ET on football Saturday's. It could work similarly for basketball too. And perhaps Comcast/NBC would want to be a partner.

Just speculating.[/quote']

I don't know if creating a network is necessarily the right choice. The SEC's revenues w/o having to go through the expense and take the risk on creating a network blow away what the B10 schools make from the B10 network.

[Birds of B'more]

Joining the B10 would almost certainly lead to a reduction in revenues. TV is only a small fraction of those revenues. Notre Dame brings in almost $60m a year from football. They benefit from being able to keep a national profile playing big market teams from California, and the Northeast on a yearly basis which helps w/fundraising etc... If they joing a conference it's going to require special treatment (limited conference schedule, etc...) and realistically its something only the Big East can offer.

They already have that special treatment from the Big East. They get to participate in all other sports, share in the basketball revenues, and they get to steal one of the Big East's bowl games from time to time. Frankly I don't see why the Big East tolerates it....but that's another matter. I'm not sure where the source is on your $60m. But again, the only way they will give up their football independence is if NBC ditches them. And minus that $9 million per year, the most logical way to make up that money would be to join the Big 10. Look at it this way....if you're the Big East, and Notre Dame comes to you for a handout because NBC dropped them and they need more football money, are you going to start sharing more football revenues with them in exchange for two or three games a year against Big East teams? I'd tell them to go pound sand.

If you think about it, ND going to the Big 10 would probably be a good thing for the Big East. 1) It would ensure that Pitt doesn't go, which would be far more damaging to the conference than losing ND. 2) It would open up an opportunity to add another football playing member to the conference while keeping the basketball members at 16. 3) As I mentioned before, they won't steal one of the conference's bowl games anymore.

[Majin Buu]

If ND were to join a conference (and it would be the Big 10 if they did) then they would probably drop some of their rivalries. They would only have 4 non-conference games per season' date=' and I doubt they would want it to be USC, Stanford, Navy and BC (I don't think they play Army regularly). Those rivalries are home-and-home arrangements, which means those combined with the Big 10 schedule means ND would only have 6 home games per season. Most of the big time schools need at least 7 home games per season for the revenues they generate. I'd look for ND to drop at least 2 of their non-Big 10 rivals in favor of lower-level 1A teams that will do a 2-for-1 so ND can have 7 home games per season.[/quote']

That's absolutely true. By joining the Big East, they would never be able to accommodate most of their rivals. The rivals are apart of what makes Notre Dame.

[Birds of B'more]

I don't know if creating a network is necessarily the right choice. The SEC's revenues w/o having to go through the expense and take the risk on creating a network blow away what the B10 schools make from the B10 network.

The thing is the Pac-10 gets hosed on it's deal with ESPN/ABC, and even Fox Sportsnet. Outside of USC, they get very little national exposure via their TV partners. If they could get the carriage deals with cable/satellite companies, they would be much better off with their own network.

[Majin Buu]

The thing is the Pac-10 gets hosed on it's deal with ESPN/ABC' date=' and even Fox Sportsnet. Outside of USC, they get very little national exposure via their TV partners. If they could get the carriage deals with cable/satellite companies, they would be much better off with their own network.[/quote']

I like the joint venture concept. Cable providers would have to carry because such an arrangement between the ACC and Pac-10 would cover major east coast and west coast markets.

[Birds of B'more]

No surprise, the Pac-10 is now thinking expansion. Utah and BYU seem to make the most sense. The conference currently has a pairing of 2 schools that make up a state or region, and the two Utah schools would keep with that. Both of them would also enhance the conference's football profile, and in recent years have had decent basketball programs too (although Utah has slipped since Majerus left). BYU doesn't fit the profile of the other schools as a research institution, and the two combined don't add many TV viewers. But in every other aspect they seem like a good fit.

The only other scenario I can imagine is to see if they can poach Colorado and Texas from the Big 12. The Pac-10 actually invited Texas to join back when the Southwest Conference was disbanding and UT turned them down. But with the Pac-10 now looking at starting it's own network, maybe they ask Texas again to reconsider with the expectation that the huge TV markets the Longhorns bring will benefit both UT and the other Pac-10 schools. At the same time though, I'm sure the Texas politicians will put some serious heat on UT to not leave the other Texas schools behind.

[waroriole]

No surprise' date=' the Pac-10 is now thinking expansion. Utah and BYU seem to make the most sense. The conference currently has a pairing of 2 schools that make up a state or region, and the two Utah schools would keep with that. Both of them would also enhance the conference's football profile, and in recent years have had decent basketball programs too (although Utah has slipped since Majerus left). BYU doesn't fit the profile of the other schools as a research institution, and the two combined don't add many TV viewers. But in every other aspect they seem like a good fit.

The only other scenario I can imagine is to see if they can poach Colorado and Texas from the Big 12. The Pac-10 actually invited Texas to join back when the Southwest Conference was disbanding and UT turned them down. But with the Pac-10 now looking at starting it's own network, maybe they ask Texas again to reconsider with the expectation that the huge TV markets the Longhorns bring will benefit both UT and the other Pac-10 schools. At the same time though, I'm sure the Texas politicians will put some serious heat on UT to not leave the other Texas schools behind.

I couldn't imagine Texas leaving. They have two huge rivals, Oklahoma and Texas A&M, in the Big 12. Utah and BYU make sense though. Maybe Boise St. could get in on that somehow, though they don't bring anything in basketball.

[Birds of B'more]

I couldn't imagine Texas leaving. They have two huge rivals, Oklahoma and Texas A&M, in the Big 12. Utah and BYU make sense though. Maybe Boise St. could get in on that somehow, though they don't bring anything in basketball.

I don't see Boise St being invited. And the main issue with BYU is their refusal to play any sports on Sundays....the Pac-10 doesn't want to deal with the scheduling hassle they would create. The more I read, the more I hear Utah and Colorado. Obviously Utah still makes perfect sense, even without BYU. I can see Colorado's appeal as far as adding a good sized TV market in Denver, but man, what a lousy athletic program....they would not raise the profile of Pac-10 sports one bit.

[Birds of B'more]

Interesting comments from N.D. To sum up, conference expansion could affect their ability to schedule as a football independent and may affect their standing as a Big East team in other sports....which ultimately could force their hand.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/ncaa/03/09/notre-dame-expansion/

[Birds of B'more]

Lots of talk this week that the Big 10 (11) is moving up the timetable on expansion. Not only that, but looks like they don't plan on stopping at just a 12-team conference. Three, or as many as five schools could be added to make a Big East Basketball-like super-conference.

And if the Big 10 does go as high as 16 schools, speculation is that the SEC won't be far behind in expanding again. And of course the Pac-10 still has it's own expansion coming down the pike. The college football landscape could look drastically different in a couple years. And it could have a big impact on basketball too...the Big East could go back to being a basketball-only conference, with it's football-playing members all being gone and the basketball-only (or schools with 1-AA football programs) being all that remains.

[blid]

The Big Ten, having their own network, will really want to expand their market.. Rutgers, Missouri, etc. make sense in that respect, more than a school like Pittsburgh. Still, I wonder if the Big Ten could end up poaching Maryland. Yes, the ACC is a better basketball conference but Maryland bigwigs might go for it if the Big Ten can offer a lot more money via their football and their television network.

[carolinaoriole]

It goes through the 2015 season. I have no idea what the ratings have looked like the past two seasons' date=' but it was renewed right after the 3-9 season in 2007, and ratings did take a hit that year.

My opinion, unless Notre Dame returns to being a premiere team in college football (and I don't see it happening in the current environment) then the ratings will probably continue to decline, but will do so very slowly. ND does not have mass appeal to younger audiences who have no recollection of their glory days. Maybe some younger people follow them because older members of their family do, but even that won't keep up if they have year-after-year of mediocre seasons. But the large national following that they do currently have will probably remain mostly loyal and might be enough for NBC to re-up again in a few years. Plus, we can't forget there is a significant legion of fans who tune in to NBC because they despise ND and simply enjoy watching them lose....think of it is O's fans tuning into YES via MLBTV.com or MLBEI during a season when the Yankees are on their way to losing 100 games.

That said, Notre Dame tends to be rather myopic when it comes to their football....so I think they probably expect that they will win at least five national titles in the next decade, will have multiple Heisman winners over the same period, and that the cash flow from NBC will go on forever. Therefore, any overtures about joining the Big 10 over the next year or so will be summarily dismissed in South Bend.[/quote']

The Irish will not join a conferance because football independance is a very big core that is tied to the identity of Notre Dame.

They are a national university.

If they join the big ten they would become a regional catholic university with no identity being told what to do by Michigan and Ohio State.

I hope that never happens.

Go Irish.

[geschinger]

The Irish will not join a conferance because football independance is a very big core that is tied to the identity of Notre Dame.

They are a national university.

If they join the big ten they would become a regional catholic university with no identity being told what to do by Michigan and Ohio State.

I hope that never happens.

Go Irish.

I'm not sure I buy this argument. National University for football but regional catholic university for every other sport? They are independent in football because it makes sense financially and the Big East has been foolish enough to allow them membership for everything but football. Take away that crutch for all sports other than football and I don't see how they can possibly stay independent.

[Birds of B'more]

I'm not sure I buy this argument. National University for football but regional catholic university for every other sport? They are independent in football because it makes sense financially and the Big East has been foolish enough to allow them membership for everything but football. Take away that crutch for all sports other than football and I don't see how they can possibly stay independent.

Which is exactly what I've been advocating the Big East should do, ASAP. Go to ND and say "you're either 100% in, or you're out." Of course they would do this knowing full well that ND would never join the BE in football, so it would in essence be expelling ND from the conference. Then, without a conference in which to play other sports I believe ND would have almost no choice but to join the Big 10. And if ND joins the Big 10, I'd bet the Big 10 would be more than happy to add them and stop right there. That would prevent the Big 10 from poaching any of the BE's full members and would easily preserve the conference's status as an AQ member of the BCS. They could also go out and replace ND with a school that would join as a football playing member, like UCF of ECU, and have a much more desirable 9-team football conference.

[Birds of B'more]

The Irish will not join a conferance because football independance is a very big core that is tied to the identity of Notre Dame.

They are a national university.

If they join the big ten they would become a regional catholic university with no identity being told what to do by Michigan and Ohio State.

I hope that never happens.

Go Irish.

Well, if ND would prefer to cling to the past rather than look forward, then that's their business. But unless Congress or the DOJ intervenes, the future of college sports (and namely football) is in the formation of expanding cartels that can use their collective pull to get the most lucrative television deals. And those that aren't a part of the cartels will struggle to be relevant in the big picture, and some may not make enough money to even continue fielding a football team. And as much as ND might want to bury their heads in the sand and deny it, the luster is slowly fading from the golden dome...and the on-field performance and NBC ratings prove it. And ND might really want to think about what will happen if/when Comcast's controlling purchase of NBC goes through. Comcast has their own sports properties that I'm sure they would love to have a chance to showcase on a broadcast network....will they have any interest in ND football once the current contract expires? Who knows? But I'd be concerned enough about it to look long and hard at any Big 10 offer.