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Joe Saunders update

wildcard

By wildcard
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clapdiddy Hangout Grand Counsel

clapdiddy

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Would Saunders be enough of an upgrade over what we already have to be worth 7 million. I am kind of looking forward to a spring where Arrieta, Matusz, Britton, Johson, Wada and now Jurgens battle it out for the 5th spot. I want to see how those guys step up when not given a spot in the rotation. Plus I definitely am no way worried about Gonzalez. That guy is a stud. Tillman just needs to be consistent. Chen just needs to be himself. However our best pitcher Hammel is the one I'm most concerned about because of his inability to stay healthy. Unlike years past I think this is the year where we really can be confident about what we have. Even if we can't piece together a 5th starter till June we always have bundy waiting in the wings. IMO DD will keep the payroll flexibility and save it for an in season trade to improve the team if need be.

The only reason I see us looking at a guy like Saunders is pretty much what you just summed up. There's a lot of uncertainty with the rotation, and I could see DD signing him just because of it.

I agree with you that I'd rather just go with what we have, but I could see why DD and Buck might want to add a reliable veteran arm.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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The only reason I see us looking at a guy like Saunders is pretty much what you just summed up. There's a lot of uncertainty with the rotation, and I could see DD signing him just because of it.

I agree with you that I'd rather just go with what we have, but I could see why DD and Buck might want to add a reliable veteran arm.

Of a rotation of Hammel, Chen, Tillman, Saunders, and, Gonzo, Saunders would be the best bet to give us 180 IP. That's a good reason to sign him.
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pdiddy Veteran All-Star

pdiddy

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Of a rotation of Hammel, Chen, Tillman, Saunders, and, Gonzo, Saunders would be the best bet to give us 180 IP. That's a good reason to sign him.

Every bit of this. He's less likely to forget how to pitch than most guys on the staff and a good bet to pit in reasonably predictable starts and innings. He made Buck look good in TX too, which probably counts for a little bit.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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Of a rotation of Hammel, Chen, Tillman, Saunders, and, Gonzo, Saunders would be the best bet to give us 180 IP. That's a good reason to sign him.

HMM....

Gonzo pitched 220 innings last year counting winter ball.

Chen 192 last year

Saunders has pitched 200 innings in both 2010 and 2011

Tillman 178.2 last year.

Hammel had over 170 inning in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

I wouldn't want to bet any of those guys would not pitch 180 innings.

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Scrat1 Hangout Grand Counsel

Scrat1

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I think DD is handling this well. We don't need Saunders, but he'd be very nice to have. DD likely has a decent sized deal on the table, say 1/8, and if Saunders ends up accepting, great. If not, no biggy.

I'm speculating some, obviously, but I'm guessing that's the scenario.

I'm fine with a two year deal, but I understand DD's position here. Why not give one of the young guys an opportunity to step up and establish himself in the rotation like Tillman? If we get hit with the injury bug and the other guys don't step up, then we can go out and make a trade for another guy like Saunders. With Gausman and Bundy en route, we've got a pitching logjam on the horizon and eventually we're going to have to make a trade. The only way Arrieta, Britton, Matusz and Johnson are going to have any value is if they have at least some moderate success in the majors.

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BarclaySouthway Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

BarclaySouthway

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If your 5th starter has a 100 ERA+ (and 1-4 hold up their end), you have a damn fine rotation. An ERA+ of 100 is nothing to sneeze at.

I can see why Buck and DD would think that signing Saunders is overkill and that surely one of Arrieta, Matusz, S. Johnson, Britton, and Jurrjens will step up and claim that spot. But think of all the past spring trainings when the Os had 20 starters in camp thinking that a couple of decent pitchers would shake out and instead came up with nothing.

Granted, the 5 guys we have now competing for the 5th spot are younger and more talented than the Adam Eatons of the world, but what if none of them shows they are worthy come April 1st? It's totally within the realm of possibility. So is an injury to one of your top 4 before Opening Day. Just once I'd like to go into spring training knowing who our starting five will be. If one of the other guys also ends of deserving a spot, great! We then have a more valuable trade chip. (Who might end up being Saunders himself.)

In the last five years Saunders has pitched 198, 186, 203, 212, and 175 innings and put up ERA+s of 131, 95, 92, 107, and 103. In the heat of the pennant race for the Orioles, he turned it up a notch (117 ERA+). In the playoffs, he pitched 11 innings of 1.59 ERA ball. That kind of consistency is worth a 1/10, 2/16 deal easy in my opinion.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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HMM....

Gonzo pitched 220 innings last year counting winter ball.

Chen 192 last year

Saunders has pitched 200 innings in both 2010 and 2011

Tillman 178.2 last year.

Hammel had over 170 inning in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

I wouldn't want to bet any of those guys would not pitch 180 innings.

Hopefullly you're right, but that doesn't change the fact that Saunders is the most likely at a career ave of 209 IP. Hammel is coming off injury, Gonzo has only pitched a half season in the ML Tillman just got his act together the second half of last season, And Chen is still adjusting to the ML 5 day rotation,
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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Would Saunders be enough of an upgrade over what we already have to be worth 7 million. /QUOTE]

2.5 WAR last year, 1.1 WAR the year before, 1.6 in 2010. So, yeah. $7 million is pretty solid.

That doesn't answer his question at all. How does Saunders' value compare to that of Britton or Matusz? Is the potential upgrade worth 7M?

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LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

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Joe Saunders has been offered a two-year deal worth roughly $15MM from an unknown team, Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun reports, though his sources aren't directly involved in the negotiations. The Orioles aren't the mystery team, as Baltimore would prefer to sign Saunders to a one-year deal with a team option for the second year. Connolly says the O's are still interested in Saunders despite their recent agreement with Jair Jurrjens. Besides the O's, the Mariners and Twins have also been linked to Saunders this winter, and the Twins have offered Saunders a one-year deal.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#sbA8XqtBrYUwjgUr.99

From MLB Trade Rumors: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/quick-hits-saunders-white-sox-konerko.html

$15 million over two years from an unspecified team. I wonder if his agent floated that out there.

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