Oriole players are upset WOW

[TonySoprano]

From Peter Schmuck:

I don't really get this argument. The Orioles felt that Jim Johnson wasn't worth in excess of $10 million. The vast majority of fans agree with that argument. I would be surprised if Schmuck didn't feel the same way. So if they feel it would be a poor decision to tender him that kind of contract, the fact that the A's were willing to do so doesn't invalidate Duquette's reasoning.

Several years ago, Schmuck openly criticized Angelos about not spending money. After that, Angelos refused to do interviews with the Sun and would instead talk to the Washington Post. For the most part, Schmuck stayed on the porch having learned a lesson. Admittedly, I have gotten away from reading that paper since they went to their paywall.

ETA

Then that goes back to the old argument from some folks of spending just to spend. It's like when people on here complain that money isn't being spent on FA's but then can't really name any FAs that they want signed.

I'll name one that I know won't happen, Ellsbury.

[eddie83]

Several years ago, Schmuck openly criticized Angelos about not spending money. After that, Angelos refused to do interviews with the Sun and would instead talk to the Washington Post. For the most part, Schmuck stayed on the porch having learned a lesson. Admittedly, I have gotten away from reading that paper since they went to their paywall.

ETA

I'll name one that I know won't happen, Ellsbury.

That paywall is easy to get around.

[tntoriole]

And honestly, even if Duquette doesn't utilize that $10m elsewhere, it still doesn't mean it should have been spent on JJ or any bullpen pitcher.

And how much SHOULD a team spend on ANY bullpen pitcher? Is the idea that bullpen pitchers should mainly be pre arbitration pitchers, prospects sprinkled in with an occasional veteran who has an accidentally better year than expected (at which point he becomes too expensive and needs to go).

[weams]

And how much SHOULD a team spend on ANY bullpen pitcher? Is the idea that bullpen pitchers should mainly be pre arbitration pitchers, prospects sprinkled in with an occasional veteran who has an accidentally better year than expected (at which point he becomes too expensive and needs to go).

That has been the traditional model.

Or guys that are past their prime.

[eddie83]

And honestly, even if Duquette doesn't utilize that $10m elsewhere, it still doesn't mean it should have been spent on JJ or any bullpen pitcher.

Would you rather still have JJ or have the money stay with ownership? I get not paying that much to a closer but I don't want that money spent in the bargain bin either.

[weams]

Would you rather still have JJ or have the money stay with ownership? I get not paying that much to a closer but I don't want that money spent in the bargain bin either.

But you don't get it. That money is Orioles money. Peter keeps his own money. And he does not spend it on the Orioles.

[ledzepp8]

And how much SHOULD a team spend on ANY bullpen pitcher? Is the idea that bullpen pitchers should mainly be pre arbitration pitchers, prospects sprinkled in with an occasional veteran who has an accidentally better year than expected (at which point he becomes too expensive and needs to go).

I think the idea is that bullpen pitchers are so volatile that their value fluctuates to extremes from year to year and so substantial resources shouldn't be allocated to long term deals with them.

[ledzepp8]

Would you rather still have JJ or have the money stay with ownership? I get not paying that much to a closer but I don't want that money spent in the bargain bin either.

I would have liked to keep JJ but not for $10m. I would like to see them spend that saved money elsewhere, but I would rather the ownership put that money in their pockets than to pay it to him, yes.

[mdbdotcom]

First of all, it WAS a major factor, but lets take your point.If his 9 blown saves DIDNT cost us the playoffs...would we have been in the playoffs

if he blew only two?If the answer is no show me how.

Had Johnson blown only 2 games and saved the other 7 (finishing with a saves record of 57-2), the O's would have gone to the playoffs. No American League pitcher who saved as many as 35 games blew as few as 2.

Of the 9 he blew, he won one of them and three of them were lost subsequent to him giving up the tying run.

He was very good, but far from great. And if you want to blame him for not making it to the playoffs, why are you so incredulous about what they got for him?

[tntoriole]

First of all, it WAS a major factor, but lets take your point.If his 9 blown saves DIDNT cost us the playoffs...would we have been in the playoffs

if he blew only two?If the answer is no show me how.

We could have made the playoffs any number of other ways even with JJ having 9 blown saves. First, you show me any closer in major league baseball last year that had more than 35 saves and who blew only two saves. That would be none. Zero. And that Rivera guy had seven. So yes, maybe some of the fan expectations might be a tad much for a single guy. On our team alone we also had Matusz with four blown saves, O'Day with four blown saves, Pedro Strop with three and Hunter with two blown saves. Take 7 out of those 13 and do we make the playoffs? And don't even get me started about the RISPs and the .090 2b production for an entire month, etc. etc. What hit here or there or anywhere would have got us another half dozen wins? We sucked at plenty enough parts of the entire game last year to not throw it all on Jim Johnson.

[Ruzious]

I hope the organization knows that their honeymoon of winning baseball is over. It's time for them to step up this winter and use their resources for players.

Amen. Thank you for stepping up and saying that.

[Keygans]

This is a good deal for the orioles. It is obviously a set up move, for what we don't yet know, but in a vaccuum it makes no sense. Perhaps we sign Cruz, or Choo, maybe we sign Garza or Jiminez. I dont know, but i DO trust Dan Duquette.

Even if we end up trading Wieters or Hardy or anyone else, that has NO impact on this trade to shed 10mm for an average closer.

[quidam]

Then that goes back to the old argument from some folks of spending just to spend. It's like when people on here complain that money isn't being spent on FA's but then can't really name any FAs that they want signed.

I could name two for you in Feldman and Frank Rodriguez. Instead we traded assets for them midseason.

There are guys every year that offer value. Colon, Drew, Victorino, Napoli, Veras, Koji, Oliver Perez, Russel Martin, Navarro, etc.

Duquette has made it clear that this team's success is heavily dependent on player development. And that is true, but a big factor in our success is realizing the financial limitations. If we were not going to pay Johnson 10M then why wasn't he traded last year and sign Koji of Veras?

[tntoriole]

I could name two for you in Feldman and Frank Rodriguez. Instead we traded assets for them midseason.

There are guys every year that offer value. Colon, Drew, Victorino, Napoli, Veras, Koji, Oliver Perez, Russel Martin, Navarro, etc.

Duquette has made it clear that this team's success is heavily dependent on player development. And that is true, but a big factor in our success is realizing the financial limitations. If we were not going to pay Johnson 10M then why wasn't he traded last year and sign Koji of Veras?

And that Liriano guy seemed to do pretty well in Pittsburgh for 1 million.

[mcneck]

Who cares what Angelos has to say unless it,s to announce the sale of the Orioles?? When is the last time he said anything with substance outside of his legal arena???

More importantly I honestly don't believe I can remember the man ever telling the truth about anything baseball related.