Oriole players are upset WOW

[Dipper9]

I'm sorry, Dipper, but I'm not sure that I see your point. Did you want us to outbid the Yankees for McCann or offer Ellsbury an even more ridiculous contract than the Yankees did?

Frankly, I took both of those signings as good news. It pretty much takes the Yankees and their big pockets out of contention for the guys we might be looking at. At the same time, we all knew that the Orioles weren't in the market for Cano, and the Ellsbury signing can only serve to drive Cano's price even higher.

Forcing other teams to spend even more on players that we are not in the market for is a good thing for us. They have less to spend on guys we are looking at.

Every voter but one (me, by the way) in FRobby's poll voted to let our 100-save closer go for absolutely nothing, rather than pay him the projected $10.8 million expected from arbitration. I'm not getting your issue with trading him for salary relief, either.

I'm not sure why AJ would be unhappy to see a center-fielder sign with another club at a ridiculously high price. I seriously doubt that he was pushing for the Orioles to sign a second center-fielder, and, besides, it sure gives him a great comp for his next contract negotiation.

It is December 4. There are still plenty of available players at our positions of need and some of our opponents are in the process of overspending on guys that we weren't looking at signing anyway. This really is not a time to panic.

In a vacuum, I would not pay Johnson $10 Million to be a closer. That was a solid move.

What I don't like is that the rest of the teams in the East are getting better while we are picking up "depth" Quad A guys that no one, save Tony and others who work in the baseball field, know who the hell they are. I don't like that every other team in baseball seems to have their wallets flowing with money, yet we are crying poor.

The AJ comment is more of a baseball comment, but it relates to the O's. Jones is a better player than Ellsbury, yet the Yankees are paying him double what the Orioles are paying Adam. Why would he not be pissed about that? Would you be happy if the schmuck next to you who played on the OH all day while you busted your ass was getting paid double your salary? I bet you would.

[Babypowder]

In a vacuum, I would not pay Johnson $10 Million to be a closer. That was a solid move.

What I don't like is that the rest of the teams in the East are getting better while we are picking up "depth" Quad A guys that no one, save Tony and others who work in the baseball field, know who the hell they are. I don't like that every other team in baseball seems to have their wallets flowing with money, yet we are crying poor.

The AJ comment is more of a baseball comment, but it relates to the O's. Jones is a better player than Ellsbury, yet the Yankees are paying him double what the Orioles are paying Adam. Why would he not be pissed about that? Would you be happy if the schmuck next to you who played on the OH all day while you busted your ass was getting paid double your salary? I bet you would.

Because Jones isn't a better player than Ellsbury.

[weams]

Would you be happy if the schmuck next to you who played on the OH all day while you busted your ass was getting paid double your salary? I bet you would.

Doesn't he?

[Guest]

Because Jones isn't a better player than Ellsbury.

<a href='http://gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/not-sure-if-serious'><img src='http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/not%20sure%20if%20serious/grand/87582072.gif' alt='not sure if srs serious Dr Strangelove not sure if srs serious Dr Strangelove'></a>......

[CA-ORIOLE]

The AJ comment is more of a baseball comment, but it relates to the O's. Jones is a better player than Ellsbury, yet the Yankees are paying him double what the Orioles are paying Adam. Why would he not be pissed about that? Would you be happy if the schmuck next to you who played on the OH all day while you busted your ass was getting paid double your salary? I bet you would.

Jones got a very fair contract at the time. He didn't have to sign it and could have waited it out for free agency. he is stil young and has another opportunity to sign another big contract. There are risks and rewards to waiting for Free agency and security in signing extensions as Jones did. I can understand Jones being upset about the situation with the team not improving, but I see no reason why he should be pissed about his or Elsbury's contract.

[Babypowder]

<a href='http://gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/not-sure-if-serious'><img src='http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/not%20sure%20if%20serious/grand/87582072.gif' alt='not sure if srs serious Dr Strangelove not sure if srs serious Dr Strangelove'></a>......

Ellsbury has been worth 16.3 WAR the last 3 years, even including an injury riddled 2012 where he only played 74 games. Jones is at 12. Ellsbury is a much better defender, a much better baserunner, and gets on base more.

[Scrat1]

<a href='http://gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/not-sure-if-serious'><img src='http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/not%20sure%20if%20serious/grand/87582072.gif' alt='not sure if srs serious Dr Strangelove not sure if srs serious Dr Strangelove'></a>......

He's absolutely serious. It's not all that close, really.

[Guest]

Ellsbury has been worth 16.3 WAR the last 3 years, even including an injury riddled 2012 where he only played 74 games. Jones is at 12. Ellsbury is a much better defender, a much better baserunner, and gets on base more.

<a href='http://gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/not-sure-if-want'><img src='http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/not%20sure%20if%20want/grand/not-sure-if-want-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-232.gif' alt='not sure if want gif'></a>........

[Scrat1]

Ellsbury has been worth 16.3 WAR the last 3 years, even including an injury riddled 2012 where he only played 74 games. Jones is at 12. Ellsbury is a much better defender, a much better baserunner, and gets on base more.

Jones is more durable and has more pop, but it's not enough to offset the gap between the two. Ellsbury, at least this point in their careers, is clearly the better player.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Ellsbury has been worth 16.3 WAR the last 3 years, even including an injury riddled 2012 where he only played 74 games. Jones is at 12. Ellsbury is a much better defender, a much better baserunner, and gets on base more.

Well, lets not quote yucky defensive metrics about Jones not being that good of a defender. He has Gold Gloves !!!

[Babypowder]

Jones is more durable and has more pop, but it's not enough to offset the gap between the two. Ellsbury, at least this point in their careers, is clearly the better player.

Unless 2011 Ellsbury shows up, which I doubt. I do think he fits in Yankee stadium better so I think there will be an uptick in homers. Jones is definitely more durable, but there's no question who the better player is when they are both healthy and on the field. Anyone who looks beyond the triple crown stats knows that.

[Number5]

Do you have a link to that poll? Maybe I misread it. Because, I remember voting in it and never had the position that we should just let JJ go for absoloutely nothing. I thought he had some value and we should do exactly what we did.

Sorry, but you mis-remember, as Roger Clemens would say.

I don't know how to link it, but you can find it on page 3.

Here are the results:

View Poll Results: At what price are you willing to keep JJ for 2014?

Voters

48. You have already voted on this poll

I'd keep JJ even at $10.8 mm or a little higher

1 2.08%

I'd keep JJ at $10 mm - $10.8 mm

2 4.17%

I'd keep JJ at $9.0 - 9.9 mm

1 2.08%

I'd keep JJ at $8.0-8.9 mm

12 25.00%

I'd keep JJ at $7.0-7.9 mm

16 33.33%

I don't want JJ back even if he costs only $7.0 mm

16 33.33%

MLB Trade Rumors has a very good record at predicting arbitration reasults, and their projection for JJ is $10.8 million. That is why FRobby used that figure. I was the only person that voted that if JJ won $10.8 million at arbitration I would keep him. Everyone else was willing to cut him for nothing in spring training and pay him 1/6 of his salary. 2 people said they would keep him if he came out of arb with a salary between $10 and $10.8, and one other voter said JJ should be kept if he comes out of arb with a salary between $9 and $10. The numbers don't lie, and that is the way we voted. Only 4 people said they would keep him if he only came out of arb with $9 million. Everyone else was saying that they would cut him loose and pay 1/6 of his salary if his salary was that high. Thinking he would get less than $9 million really wasn't realistic, so yes, nearly everyone here wanted JJ gone for nothing.

This poll was based on the assumption that DD would offer JJ arbitration. To me this is a clear illustration that many are ready to complain, kick, and scream no matter what the Orioles do. We say we don't want JJ, even if we get absolutely zero in return, yet as soon as DD actually pulls the trigger and trades him for salary relief (plus the bonus of two players that have at least the possibility of turning into something) we change our tune 180 degrees and cry and scream that it was a bad trade.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Sorry, but you mis-remember, as Roger Clemens would say.

I don't know how to link it, but you can find it on page 3.

Here are the results:

View Poll Results: At what price are you willing to keep JJ for 2014?

Voters

48. You have already voted on this poll

I'd keep JJ even at $10.8 mm or a little higher

1 2.08%

I'd keep JJ at $10 mm - $10.8 mm

2 4.17%

I'd keep JJ at $9.0 - 9.9 mm

1 2.08%

I'd keep JJ at $8.0-8.9 mm

12 25.00%

I'd keep JJ at $7.0-7.9 mm

16 33.33%

I don't want JJ back even if he costs only $7.0 mm

16 33.33%

MLB Trade Rumors has a very good record at predicting arbitration reasults, and their projection for JJ is $10.8 million. That is why FRobby used that figure. I was the only person that voted that if JJ won $10.8 million at arbitration I would keep him. Everyone else was willing to cut him for nothing in spring training and pay him 1/6 of his salary. 2 people said they would keep him if he came out of arb with a salary between $10 and $10.8, and one other voter said JJ should be kept if he comes out of arb with a salary between $9 and $10. The numbers don't lie, and that is the way we voted. Only 4 people said they would keep him if he only came out of arb with $9 million. Everyone else was saying that they would cut him loose and pay 1/6 of his salary if his salary was that high. Thinking he would get less than $9 million really wasn't realistic, so yes, nearly everyone here wanted JJ gone for nothing.

This poll was based on the assumption that DD would offer JJ arbitration. To me this is a clear illustration that many are ready to complain, kick, and scream no matter what the Orioles do. We say we don't want JJ, even if we get absolutely zero in return, yet as soon as DD actually pulls the trigger and trades him for salary relief (plus the bonus of two players that have at least the possibility of turning into something) we change our tune 180 degrees and cry and scream that it was a bad trade.

Yeah, I get the results. But the point is what was the question and the context? Just because people in that poll didn't want to pay him 10 mil doesn't meant they wanted to let him go for "absoloutely nothing" and that you were the only one that didn't want to let him go for absoloutely nothing as you stated. You seem to be a bit myopic about things like this.

Here's the link. Why don;t you read it again and take a look at the comments in it.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/137580-What-s-the-most-you-would-pay-to-keep-Jim-Johnson

[Number5]

Yeah, I get the results. But the point is what was the question and the context? Just because people in that poll didn't want to pay him 10 mil doesn't meant they wanted to let him go for "absoloutely nothing" and that you were the only one that didn't want to let him go for absoloutely nothing as you stated. You seem to be a bit myopic about things like this.

The question was clear: At what salary are you willing to KEEP JJ for 2014? The cery real choice was based on what we would expect him to get through the arbitration process. There is no way you can spin it otherwise.

[joeyc]

It is for the orioles, just like every year.

Because the off-season is over?