Would you make these moves?

[Will]

I could see them needing Jay...Garret Anderson is injury prone and unreliable.

So is Gibbons.

[Lt Melmo]

If you want to say this package is too much, that's one thing. But we have no idea what Kotchman or Wood will do and OCab is certainly not as good as he once was.

The idea here is Wood needs to go to third. So, he goes to the minors to learn to play third this year(and in ST).

OCab is our SS for the next 2 years.

The question i have is do we wait to trade CPat?

The reason i say this is because in 2008, assuming CPat is not signed and we aren't smart to make Mora the super UTI guy, that Crawford or Markakis will go to CF(probably Crawford) and Mora will be in LF.

And these moves may be made by July, depending on how quickly Wood adjusts to third.

So, instead of moving everyone around mid season, do we just move them now and trade CPat?

Now, by doing this, we would need to acquire a third baseman for the year(or half the year, whatever the case may be).

Well now we're more on the same page. Moving Wood to third might be a good plan, but do you think the Angels really want to still trade so many good players?

I'm gonna say that Wood is basically on the same level as DCab. Both have tremendous, unproven upside. Wood has been spectacular in the minors and is a top prospect. DCab's potential makes it so people are hesitant to trade him for Teixeira, who is a proven hitter and Baltimore's very own Baby Jesus.

Wood has a LOT of value, but a lot of it comes from his hopefully, one day figuring out shortstop. Move him to third, and he drops pretty far down in value.

This is a bit long-winded, so my question for you is, why wouldn't the Angels just make Wood adapt to third and try to move OCab alone? Of course it won't be enough for us, but look at it from the Angels' point of view. If they get the idea to move Wood to third, they'd be trading away half of their infield for Tejada and an oft-injured DH. It's not a matter of value, it's a matter of creating new holes. Who would play third for them?

Now, if this somehow happened with TB too, trading Patterson becomes necessary. His value probably won't be getting any higher. Penn/Ray/Olson isn't enough for them, I don't think.

[Sports Guy]

Well now we're more on the same page. Moving Wood to third might be a good plan, but do you think the Angels really want to still trade so many good players?

There options are dqindling quickly..They are being told they need to trade Santana and Figgins for Crede, who is not the player Tejada is and is only signed for one more year. So yes, i could see them trading the extra talent to get the better player. I don't think they will think too much of trading OCab or Kotchman..So, it comes down to Wood.

Wood has a LOT of value, but a lot of it comes from his hopefully, one day figuring out shortstop. Move him to third, and he drops pretty far down in value.

Right and the Angels have Aybar and another top SS prospect, so Wood may go to third anyway and that will bring his value down.

This is a bit long-winded, so my question for you is, why wouldn't the Angels just make Wood adapt to third and try to move OCab alone? Of course it won't be enough for us, but look at it from the Angels' point of view. If they get the idea to move Wood to third, they'd be trading away half of their infield for Tejada and an oft-injured DH. It's not a matter of value, it's a matter of creating new holes. Who would play third for them?

Because they then wouldn't get the guy they want..Tejada....McPherson can play third for them or they could go out and make a trade for Ensberg or sign Hllenbrand or Huff or whatever.

[nhoj502]

No GM in their right mind would ever accept any of those trades, we should trade Tejada, and start working on getting some younger players, and an ace pitcher

[Mackus]

I'd do both trades, but doubtful either of the other teams would.

Replace Wood with Aybar and the Angels probably bite.

Replace Penn with Loewen/Cabrera and take out Liz/Olson and the DRays probably make the move. I don't think I'd make that trade though.

[Lucky Jim]

Well, seeing as the trades are an attempt to both trade Tejada AND get younger...

I don't think the Angels give that much up, myself. But that doesn't mean the discussion's not useful or provocative.

More than you've offered up yet. By far.

[square634]

or they could go out and make a trade for Ensberg

Overall, I agree with your approach, and a trade for Ensberg would DEFINITELY be a huge improvement, but it seems sort of odd to me that people always suggest a trade of Benson for Ensberg. I know Ensberg hit .235 last year, and I know Houston is apparently not thrilled with him, but I think it's even a bit condescending to think that Houston's FO is so stupid that they wouldn't understand the value of Ensberg. And Ensberg isn't even a salary dump; he has a very reasonable contract, and they'd be taking on money to get league average production out of Benson.

If we had Ensberg, we would never want the O's to trade him for Benson, so we shouldn't expect Houston to either. And if they did put him out on the market, don't you think some other team smarter than the O's would offer a bit more than Benson?

I know that's not the main point of this thread, but I just see it all the time (and if that type of offer were on the table, someone would have taken it). Overall, very good post and good ideas for solutions.

[Sports Guy]

I'd do both trades, but doubtful either of the other teams would.

Replace Wood with Aybar and the Angels probably bite.

Replace Penn with Loewen/Cabrera and take out Liz/Olson and the DRays probably make the move. I don't think I'd make that trade though.

If the Angels really want Tejada, i just don't see them allowing the difference between Wood and Aybar being enough for them to turn this down, especially since we take OCab off of their hands.

[Sports Guy]

Overall, I agree with your approach, and a trade for Ensberg would DEFINITELY be a huge improvement, but it seems sort of odd to me that people always suggest a trade of Benson for Ensberg. I know Ensberg hit .235 last year, and I know Houston is apparently not thrilled with him, but I think it's even a bit condescending to think that Houston's FO is so stupid that they wouldn't understand the value of Ensberg. And Ensberg isn't even a salary dump; he has a very reasonable contract, and they'd be taking on money to get league average production out of Benson.

If we had Ensberg, we would never want the O's to trade him for Benson, so we shouldn't expect Houston to either. And if they did put him out on the market, don't you think some other team smarter than the O's would offer a bit more than Benson?

I know that's not the main point of this thread, but I just see it all the time (and if that type of offer were on the table, someone would have taken it). Overall, very good post and good ideas for solutions.

First of all, i was saying Ensberg for the Angels..Secondly, if you are going to look at BA, there is not much reason to discuss Ensberg then. He brings alot more to worry about that useless stat.

[paulcoates]

our lineup would be horrendous

1)Roberts

2)Markakis

3)Crawford

4)Mora

5)Hernandez

6)Millar

7)Kotchman

8)Cabrera

9)Patterson

[Lucky Jim]

To be fair, SG - I think Square is saying that Houston may have devalued him somewhat due to his BA (not that he, the poster is) but just not enough to mean they'll be irrational in matching up for trades.

Let's not jump the gun, here - we try to dismiss others' posts too quickly do their apparent (or supposed) use of "useless" stats.

[weams]

Ray for.....Manny?

Ok...Gibbons and Ray.

[erb8472]

our lineup would be horrendous

1)Roberts

2)Markakis

3)Crawford

4)Mora

5)Hernandez

6)Millar

7)Kotchman

8)Cabrera

9)Patterson

That lineup is very young, and looks very good defensivley. Lot of upside there.

[square634]

Sorry, misunderstood your post, SG, I see now you were talking about the Angels.

And yes, I was saying that the BA means next to nothing, but people tend to use it as the reason that Houston would be willing to basically give him away. I tend to think Houston's GMs (and others') are smarter than that.

[oriolerockstar8]

Whats with all the love for kotchman?He hasnt proven anything in the majors and is injury prone.He gets o n base but then clogs up the basepath with his poor speed.The only left handed bat we should be looking at is crawford,but he will cost to much.