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TonySoprano

By TonySoprano
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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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I'd like to hear more of what "crazy puffed up" and "coddled" means here.

Well the rumor was that they were all treated with kid gloves and made to feel they were stars before they were rookies. And they were reluctant, except for Tillman, to accept any constructive criticism or changes. But that might just have been some bar room talk to local media also. Schmuck probably knows a bit.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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Treated by who? Buck was the manager. I assumed he brought Connor on board from the Yankee connection. Wasn't Buck in charge at the time that Connor left?

Wasn't Connor Buck's first pitching coach hire as an Oriole?

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LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

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You weren't high on ERod? I was very high on him. Much more so than Lee. That said, I will give the minor league coaches some props:

http://www.camdenchat.com/2016/2/4/10914602/chris-lee-is-a-name-that-baltimore-orioles-fans-should-get-to-know

In particular:

After being shipped to the O's, Lee started to turn things around. He credited Alan Mills and Rick Peterson for shortening his stride to make his delivery far less erratic. That also had an unexpected benefit: he got his velocity back. In the later part of 2015 Lee had made it through Frederick and into Bowie, and his fastball was sitting in the low to mid 90's while touching as high as 97. He finished out the year with a 3.07 ERA split between Frederick and Bowie, two levels he had never pitched in before the trade.

That said, the velocity increase is great. Need to see that he's not fastball happy and can actually get guys out via the K.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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Treated by who?

I guess the front office that put them on the Yearbook and the staff that Dan replaced? I guess. That was the only scuttlebutt that I heard about Connor. That he disliked our pitchers. Immensely.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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I think so. So who would be coddling the pitchers if Buck and Connor were in charge of them?

I guess the guys before Buck and Mark then. And the GM that they worked for. Listen, It was just the local rumor. Probably nothing at all to it. It might even be revisionist since Guthrie and Bergesen and Patton and Matusz all tanked. Probably that.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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Apparently coddling means not worrying about decreasing their time to plate. :snark:

Buck does have that fixation doesn't he. Lester has proved that you can pitch for years with no concern about tttp or the ability to even throw to fist base.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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You weren't high on ERod? I was very high on him. Much more so than Lee. That said, I will give the minor league coaches some props:

http://www.camdenchat.com/2016/2/4/10914602/chris-lee-is-a-name-that-baltimore-orioles-fans-should-get-to-know

In particular:

That said, the velocity increase is great. Need to see that he's not fastball happy and can actually get guys out via the K.

I really liked ERod until that last year. He was not much that spring when I saw him in person and even less with Bowie. Right before he was traded I saw a nice outing from him with Bowie. He was better than Davies. Eduardo was always so young for his leagues. And he is big like Jake now.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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I doubt many fans knew what was going on with Jake when he was traded. Most of us knew he has great stuff. And see knew he couldn't control it.

All this information that has come out recently about the O's not letting Jake pitch the way he wanted is new information. Its all hindsight IMO. How could the fans make a good judgements when we did not know what was happening.

Connor, Adair and Buck seemed to hold Jake back as we hear it now. I would have loved to have Wallace work with Jake. Maybe that would have made the difference. Jake had an option left at the time he was traded. He could have had more time with the O's if Dan would have chosen to go that direction.

I don't blame any fan for wanting Jake gone back then. If we knew then what we know now..........

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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It's very interesting to see that Arrieta was a fastball first pitcher with the O's, but now has been a slider/cutter first pitcher for the Cubs.

What is most interesting to me is that he is now a slugger, with a higher slugging percentage than his opponents.

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LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

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You suspect some artificial means of his improvement? It's quite possible but the improvement happened so quickly after he left the Orioles that I'm not sure about that angle.

That and we're talking a dramatically different approach to pitching. Guessing something like Maddon saying: forget Buck and his TTP, throw your cutter again...do what got you to the majors before you were screwed to high hell.

Jake's problems have always been with runners on. So maybe some combination of a sports therapist, having his best pitch being able to be thrown without disdain and also not worrying about rushing a pitch to the plate with some of your 3rd or 4th best pitches being used probably is what did it.

The change was dramatic. And fast.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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You suspect some artificial means of his improvement? It's quite possible but the improvement happened so quickly after he left the Orioles that I'm not sure about that angle. Plus, as everyone has already said, his stuff was already very good. Has his velocity increased? Seems like it was more about command (his ML walk rate with the Cubs is much better than even in the minors) which would seem to go more along with the mechanics argument than the steroids angle.

No, He's just become a right handed Babe Ruth. He must lift 24 7. He's huge.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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That and we're talking a dramatically different approach to pitching. Guessing something like Maddon saying: forget Buck and his TTP, throw your cutter again...do what got you to the majors before you were screwed to high hell.

Jake's problems have always been with runners on. So maybe some combination of a sports therapist, having his best pitch being able to be thrown without disdain and also not worrying about rushing a pitch to the plate with some of your 3rd or 4th best pitches being used probably is what did it.

The change was dramatic. And fast.

I don't think Maddon was the manager then... Otherwise, the script could work.

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