Orioles Deal Gausman/O'Day to Braves - Schoop to Brewers

[eddie83]

The key to Gausman deal is the Int money. If they don’t spend it then those slots have the same value as Syd Thrifts old confederate money. 

[NJOriolesFan]

5 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

My prediction is that not a single player coming back to us from Atlanta is able to break the top 20. 

Encarnacion is 14th on the Braves list and they have a deeper system than we do.  I'm betting he sits between 10 and 15 for us.  Zimmerman is not in their 30 but his numbers look solid.  Let's see what he does when he jumps up a level.  Phillips has some ability and Cumberland is a baseball player and we certainly need more of those guys, not just guys with raw skills but guys who know how to play the game.  I think we did ok as we vastly overrate Gausman.  I like Gausman but I think we have seen his peak.  Of course he will pitch better for the Braves.  He is in the NL rather than AL East and in a better pitcher's part and is a second half pitcher but Gausman has never made an All-Star team and likely never will.  One of the guys we got just might.

 

[sportsfan8703]

Jones should’ve approved a trade. I’m not mad at him though. 

Well now it’s time for everyone to clear waivers. Valencia and Cashner could be August deals. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, esmd said:

Man, are you being intentionally obtuse?  It's really not that hard to understand what he's saying.  No O'Day in deal = better prospect return.  Better prospect return = faster and better rebuild.  Faster and better rebuild = return to winning faster.  Having O'Day on the team next year wouldn't have made us better or worse.  You just let him play out his deal like Trumbo and then move on.

 

2 minutes ago, Reboulet'sStache said:

Walk me through the logic of this?  

You're saying the return we got for Gausman is what we would have gotten.  Then we asked the Braves if they would also take O'Day, and the Braves said, "Yeah, we're feeling generous.  Throw him in too."  

The Orioles would have to give consideration for the Braves taking O'Day.  There's no other way to look at it. 

And you guys are thinking that DD went to the Braves and said:  "Oh, sorry Atlanta, we really don't want your great prospects.  We'll gladly take lesser guys, especially if you take this contract off our hands, which is of no real consequence to us either way."

Right.

 

[sportsfan8703]

Zimmerman and Rogers(NYY) are two underrated SPs we got back. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Gofannon said:

I mean, it's obvious that we received a lesser package because of O'Day's inclusion, isn't it?  Do we really think the package got better once O'Day was included?

If O’Day was the last piece to this deal, then yes.    

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

 

And you guys are thinking that DD went to the Braves and said:  "Oh, sorry Atlanta, we really don't want your great prospects.  We'll gladly take lesser guys, especially if you take this contract off our hands, which is of no real consequence to us either way."

Right.

 

Dan traded them Matusz and a 2nd round pick for kibble.

The Orioles have a history of packaging negative value assets with valuable assets.

[Reboulet'sStache]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

And you guys are thinking that DD went to the Braves and said:  "Oh, sorry Atlanta, we really don't want your great prospects.  We'll gladly take lesser guys, especially if you take this contract off our hands, which is of no real consequence to us either way."

Right.

 

I think the Braves taking on O'Day's salary wasn't costless to us.  It's reflected in the return.  You think they took on O'Day for free because they are just sweet on Dan or something. 

[NJOriolesFan]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Jones should’ve approved a trade. I’m not mad at him though. 

Well now it’s time for everyone to clear waivers. Valencia and Cashner could be August deals. 

Can we put Jones through waivers and let him go if he is claimed?  Or as a 10-5 player does he have the right not to be put on trade waivers?

 

[Reboulet'sStache]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Dan traded them Matusz and a 2nd round pick for kibble.

The Orioles have a history of packaging negative value assets with valuable assets.

Webb and the draft pick to the Dodgers.  

[spiritof66]

Just now, Frobby said:

You really are fixated on that estate tax issue, aren’t you?  

I think most teams try to shed as much payroll as possible during a rebuild.  Save that money for another time when it will make a difference.   

It's a few facts, really, including these: the Orioles' revenues last year apparently were less than half that of the NYYs or RS (and that gap seems virtually certain to grow in the next few years), the Orioles have been living at or near the edge of their means and now propose new investments to counteract years of stupid thrift, and there's going to be a big bill coming due -- one that nobody talks about -- that will further deplete the financial resources available for a rebuild. I am concerned that if the Angeloses try to and succeed in keeping control of the Orioles -- as many seem to expect -- there will be serious financial constraints on the franchise as it tries to rebuild.  

Part of the reason I'm fixated is that the basic facts seem pretty clear to me, even if the exact numbers remain secrets,, yet there seems to be little concern about the team's likely financial condition as it rebuilds. 

Shedding salary is great. I wish we could shed more, and I'm not sure I would have gotten much use out of my "O'Day, O'Day, O'Day . . ." T-shirt anyway. I was just speculating on why a clear-cut salary dump came into the mix right before the deadline.

By the way, when I was growing up in Philadelphia and the late 50's Phillies were impoverished in both players and dollars, it was said that they disproved the adage "You can't play a check in the outfield" by acquiring (twice) outfielder Elmer Valo, who was born in what was then Czechoslavakia. 

 

[Number5]

11 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

My prediction is that not a single player coming back to us from Atlanta is able to break the top 20. 

Encarnacion was ranked by MLB.com today as #14 in Atlanta's system, which everyone keeps saying is much better than ours.

[Thato'sfan]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

And you guys are thinking that DD went to the Braves and said:  "Oh, sorry Atlanta, we really don't want your great prospects.  We'll gladly take lesser guys, especially if you take this contract off our hands, which is of no real consequence to us either way."

Right.

 

Yes actually. It really is not very difficult to understand. Atlanta needed relievers for next year, we wanted to slash payroll. It was a win-win in that sense. But the braves are taking on 11 million in salary, at the very least that decreases the value of the tertiary piece. Probably not by much, but the Orioles clearly thought that the difference in prospect talent was less valuable to the future of the organization than investing in infrastructure(scouting and analytics).

[ChuckS]

3 minutes ago, Reboulet'sStache said:

I think the Braves taking on O'Day's salary wasn't costless to us.  It's reflected in the return.  You think they took on O'Day for free because they are just sweet on Dan or something. 

Of course not.  That's what makes this deal stink even more.  

Why was the salary dump a priority at all when our payroll is going already be cut in half next year?  Shows we are still up to our old ways.  Save a few dimes at the expense of long term improvements. 

Gausman should not have been traded if the return wasn't there, bottom line.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Reboulet'sStache said:

I think the Braves taking on O'Day's salary wasn't costless to us.  It's reflected in the return.  You think they took on O'Day for free because they are just sweet on Dan or something. 

Hell if I know, maybe they want O'Day when he heals up.  Because if the two options are great prospects for Gausman or lesser prospects for Gausman and O'Day in a salary dump, when 10 million doesn't make or break the Orioles, then you're accusing DD of intentionally tanking a deal.  

But you are ignoring the 2.5 million in international money we got back as well.  If we can get VVM and another player or two with that, this wasn't a bad deal.