Next Hall of Famer

[foxfield]

12 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Ozzie Smith was not far ahead of them at 87, but everyone thought the Wizard was a slam-dunk first ballot choice.

Belanger "only" had 8 gold gloves to Ozzie's 13.  The Blade had 3.7%  of the vote in his first and lone year on the ballot.  Only Vizquel has more gold gloves (9) than Belanger as an A.L. SS.  Vizquel OPS+ 82, and received 40.9% in his 2nd year on the ballot.

But...

Ozzie, Rabbit, Luis, Omar and ...... Mark.

 

If he had only been named Benny, I think he'd be in.

[TonySoprano]

1 minute ago, foxfield said:

But...

Ozzie, Rabbit, Luis, Omar and ...... Mark.

 

If he had only been named Benny, I think he'd be in.

Benny is a football name.  There was one with the ........Jets

 

[foxfield]

3 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Benny is a football name.  There was one with the ........Jets

 

You know, I read it in a magazine...

[LookinUp]

On 1/22/2019 at 4:47 PM, Enjoy Terror said:

It's crazy how bad this division will be next year.

This is a throwaway line that will is lost in this thread, but I couldn't disagree more.

Perhaps the two best teams in MLB will be in this division next year. Another young, smart team that is coming off a 90 win season. The Jays aren't ready, but they have a couple of the best prospects in baseball on the come.

It's not the division that will stink. It's mostly only the Orioles. 

[LookinUp]

BTW, I think our next HoFer will be one of D.L. Hall, Grayson Rodriguez, our #1 pick this year or our #1 pick next year. 2040 can't come soon enough.

[Enjoy Terror]

13 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

BTW, I think our next HoFer will be one of D.L. Hall, Grayson Rodriguez, our #1 pick this year or our #1 pick next year. 2040 can't come soon enough.

Shoo-wee, let me live my life before skipping to my 60s already, lol

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Belanger and Baines were missed by not only the writers, but by pretty much everyone because you generally don't put guys who OPS .580 in the Hall, and you don't put in DHs who never led the league in anything.

Maury Allen wrote a book called “Baseball’s 100” giving his personal list of the top 100 players of all time.   He included Belanger “because there should be one guy on this list who’s here purely because of his defense.”  (Paraphrasing.)   While I don’t agree with that logic, it’s quite a compliment that Belanger was his choice.     https://www.amazon.com/Baseballs-100-Maury-Allen/dp/0883656353

[DrungoHazewood]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Maury Allen wrote a book called “Baseball’s 100” giving his personal list of the top 100 players of all time.   He included Belanger “because there should be one guy on this list who’s here purely because of his defense.”  (Paraphrasing.)   While I don’t agree with that logic, it’s quite a compliment that Belanger was his choice.     https://www.amazon.com/Baseballs-100-Maury-Allen/dp/0883656353

I think checked out that book from the library as a kid.  It might be fun to look at again.  Belanger was a great defender, but if you put him in then guys like Baines will get in, too... okay, I'll stop.

[Frobby]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

I think checked out that book from the library as a kid.  It might be fun to look at again.  Belanger was a great defender, but if you put him in then guys like Baines will get in, too... okay, I'll stop.

To be clear, I’m not in favor.   But it’s amazing to think that a banjo hitter like Belanger was worth 40.9 rWAR in his career.    His defense was really special.    

[ShaneDawg85]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

To be clear, I’m not in favor.   But it’s amazing to think that a banjo hitter like Belanger was worth 40.9 rWAR in his career.    His defense was really special.    

I remember when Cesar Izturis was here and someone commented, and I'm paraphrasing, that his defense was so good it was Belanger like.  I never saw Belanger play, I wasn't even born yet, but all I need to do is look at the numbers to know Cesar Izturis at his best was Mark Belanger in a middle of the road season.  The fact that the man even got 3.7% on the hall ballot was surely based off just his defense.  That's how good he was defensively.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, ShaneDawg85 said:

I remember when Cesar Izturis was here and someone commented, and I'm paraphrasing, that his defense was so good it was Belanger like.  I never saw Belanger play, I wasn't even born yet, but all I need to do is look at the numbers to know Cesar Izturis at his best was Mark Belanger in a middle of the road season.  The fact that the man even got 3.7% on the hall ballot was surely based off just his defense.  That's how good he was defensively.  

We do need to keep in mind that overall defense keeps improving.  I don't think it's that odd that three of the best defensive third basemen of all time are modern era players.

[DrungoHazewood]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

To be clear, I’m not in favor.   But it’s amazing to think that a banjo hitter like Belanger was worth 40.9 rWAR in his career.    His defense was really special.    

In 1976 he had 6.5 rWAR.  Thurmon Munson won the MVP and was at 5.3.  It probably should have gone to Brett or Fidrych or something.  But Belanger got zero votes, one less than John Mayberry who was a first baseman with the same OPS as Belanger.

[DrungoHazewood]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

We do need to keep in mind that overall defense keeps improving.  I don't think it's that odd that three of the best defensive third basemen of all time are modern era players.

You have to keep in mind that the older metrics derived from standard numbers and box scores have lower standard deviations than today's tracking metrics.  I think in objective terms you're right, but I'd expect defense to be like everything else - in the oldtimes the average player was much worse so there was more opportunity for stars to exceed the average.

[Catch 8]

I'm not checking the entire thread, but has Schilling been mentioned?

[DrungoHazewood]

27 minutes ago, Catch 8 said:

I'm not checking the entire thread, but has Schilling been mentioned?

Yes, in the Jim Thome/Dwight Evans/Tim Raines category of players who were Orioles for brief moments and will not have an Oriole bird on their cap, nor any controversy about whether there should be one.